Is Mental Illness Real?

erickinho1bra

Puritan Board Freshman
What do you guys think about this video from Gavin Ortlund discussing John MacArthur's view on "mental illness" and things like PTSD, depression, anxiety, etc? Do you agree with Ortlund that mental health and mental illness are real and they are related to your physical brain or do you agree with MacArthur that those things are just a result of not being grateful (or somewhere in between the two)?

 
I think mental illness is real and it has become something that our society is overly-fixated on, and which churches use to dismiss a lot of sin. Many Christians have become far too quick to medicalize things that are really spiritual issues, to our detriment. Most issues do not need to be referred to a medical professional or a secular therapist, but can and should be handled through skilled counsel by a pastor or someone else who knows the Word of God. In rare cases, there may be something wrong chemically that is worth referring to a medical professional.
 
Given the effects of the Fall on our bodies, it would be astonishing if our brains were the only part of our anatomy to be left unaffected. Having seen the behavioral results of traumatic brain injury on a former elder, it seemed pretty obvious that the changes he underwent (such as swearing like a sailor) were not simply the result of sin. I've also known schizophrenics who could function well so long as they kept taking their medication, but found life impossibly hard without them. So there is undoubtedly real mental illness. To be sure, not everything that people call mental illness is such, nor does real mental illness completely excuse a person's behavior. Parents of children with Down's syndrome presumably still have to discipline them, but in a way that takes into account their limitations. Pastoral care can and should function alongside medical care in such circumstances, just as pastors counsel people with cancer and cardiac issues. And of course sometimes it will take great wisdom to know how much is physical and how much is volitional - the person themselves may not be clear. There are times when pastors are way out of their depth in dealing with complex cases and can be greatly assisted by Christian (and in some cases even non-Christian) specialists who have the expertise that pastors often lack, though their work will never substitute for the pastoral care that pastors are trained to bring.
 
Trying to think biblically about this, I think I pretty firmly believe the Bible teaches these things:
  1. The Bible is sufficient for all of life (2 Peter 1:3-4)
  2. Physical weaknesses and needs are real (Matthew 26:41 ; 1 Timothy 5:23)
  3. Physical weaknesses can lead to spiritual wickedness (Matthew 26:41 ; 1 Corinthians 9:27; Galatians 5:16-17 )
  4. All of creation has been subject to futility and corruption (Romans 8:20-21)
  5. Our bodies need to be redeemed and until then they groan under the curse of corruption and death (Romans 8:22-23 )
  6. Death, sorrow, crying, and pain will persist until the new Heavens and new Earth come (Revelation 21:4 )
  7. Man is a union of soul and body (Matthew 10:28 ; 1 Thessalonians 5:23 )
  8. There is a spiritual significance that comes upon someone when they partake in certain physical acts (1 Corinthians 6:15-20)
  9. Spiritual needs require spiritual solutions (Matthew 17:18; Luke 4:35; Ephesians 6:12)
  10. Physical needs require physical solutions (Acts 2:44-45; 1 Timothy 5:23)
Do my points sound reasonable and honoring to the meaning or implications of these texts?
 
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For what it's worth, as someone who has chosen to pursue diagnosis/labeling for two different disorders related to mental wellness (at two very different points in my adult life, not simultaneously), I offer these anecdotal observations based on my own experience:

1. Mental wellness encompasses the physical, spiritual, emotional, and intellectual being, and any thoughtful approach to it should consider the reality/impact of all four. In my cases, pastoral counseling was where I began, with the goal of pulling these things apart and discerning where there was a physical need, a spiritual need, an emotional need, or an intellectual need.

2. Treatment of any mental or emotional disorder is also going to involve all 4 of the above, and each is treated very differently: Phyisical with physical (diet, exercise, PT, medication, etc.), spiritual with spiritual (means of grace), emotional with emotional (counseling, therapy, change of circumstance, etc.), and intellectual with intellectual (education, training).

3. To ignore the reality of any of these 4 parts of the equation, or to deny treatment for any of them, can mean that you never overcome those struggles, and can leave a person feeling very alone, hopeless, and depressed. In my case, both diagnoses (10 years apart) and subsequent treatments changed my life for the better in ways that I never could have expected. Both required treatment of all 4 parts.

I think the hype with mental wellness today tends to throw the balance between these 4 parts all out of whack, and a lot of Christians end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Of course mental illness is real. That is like asking if cancer, diabetes, or AIDS is real. There is a way that people can pawn sin off as mental illness; and there is a way that pastors go out of their realm of expertise and pretend they are something they are not, like medical or psychiatric professionals. If your child is suffering from leukemia; do you forgo the trip to Cooks and just schedule an appointment with your pastor instead? No. You go to the doctor, and visit your pastor for spiritual strength to endure the physical malady. This reminds me of all the people who didnt believe COVID was real, and then ended up dying of it.

Sometimes I think this attitude stems from obliviousness. That is, a person may be in a position to never have suffered in such a way, so they think that nobody does. Its a dangerous viewpoint to be given a platform like MacArthurs. 1 Sam. 21:13 already lets us know there is a biblical precedent for mental illness, and it is a disease as old as time. Not that David was insane or a madman, but these two things had already been defined. Because of this some may try to designate them to a confine of the spiritual realm; if so, how could medication have an affect on demons?

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"But our purpose here is not to discourse of melancholy in general, nor what may befall in common to the godly and the wicked in melancholious fits: for this doth require a larger Treatise, and the concurrence both of Physicians and Divines. We purpose only to speak to what the true convert is obnoxious unto; and when we speak of mixed cases, wherein both the distemper of the body and brain do concur with the temptation of Satan, we do not take notice of any light distemper of body and mind, which suddenly cometh and is soon removed, or which the private diligence of the child of God, in the use of the means may, and useth to overcome. Neither do we meddle with phrensies and madness, which so bereaveth the man of the use of common reason, that he cannot understand or make use of wholesome advice and counsel from the Scripture, or rightly conceive truth when it is told unto him (for in such a case the Physician only is to be called to deal with the diseased, not excluding the prayer of the Pastor and Christian friends for him.) But we are to speak concerning more moderate distempers wherein the afflicted may lay forth his temptations, and propound the reasons which seem to fortify his doubts and to dispute of them and receive reasonable answers to his objections, as they are offered unto him."
David Dickson - Therapeutica Sacra
 
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Is it too early to say, "Go home, John!" He had a good run (mostly) early on but takes like these, as well as his dispensationalism, don't help.
 
Is it too early to say, "Go home, John!" He had a good run (mostly) early on but takes like these, as well as his dispensationalism, don't help.
No, he definitely needs to retire.

I don't have a good impression of how his college and seminary have been run either. They need a rather severe housecleaning as well, I understand.
 
Here something more disturbing to me. A pastor with big influence says something that stirs up the people, rightly or wrongly. He finds no need to say anything at all in response (whether he is right or wrong originally). Which other pastor in today's world can do that? (i.e find no need to address the uproar around him - again whether he is right or wrong)
 
When I was in junior high school a guy from my church came back from Viet Nam. He was standing on a grassy front yard and a car backfired in the street. Ex-vet was across that yard and hitting the ground behind some bushes so fast that it was mind boggling. So Johnny Mac would tell him that he isn't grateful? Ugh.

A book you might like is Ed Welch's Blame it on the Brain, where he tries to address the subject as a Christian Counselor with medical training. I found this page and it looks like some interesting material is on it if you are interested. https://www.ccef.org/people/ed-welch

I never had any classic mental illness problem until I tapered off of Prednisone too fast during a very bad bout of asthma. I felt like I was going completely crazy and I was hallucinating. Hub forced me to bed and by the next day I was ok even if not great, and it slowly passed. When I told the doc later about it, the response was "oh yes, steroid psychosis is very common- next time taper down more slowly." ( Thanks for the warning when you gave me the pills, doc). Of course I wondered if I had some horrible sin I didn't know about, but somebody at CCEF encouraged me that in this case it was the brain, not the sinful heart.

I don't know why anybody listens to JM anymore. There is so much credible information about his problems out there can can be found with a search.
 
Saw some twitter replies in support. “David didn’t have this PTSD when he killed Goliath.” “We don’t read of it in the bible where there were many wars”
 
Saw some twitter replies in support. “David didn’t have this PTSD when he killed Goliath.” “We don’t read of it in the bible where there were many wars”
I think there's an interesting investigation into some of the socially-constructed nature of PTSD and a conversation to be had. Key thing here though, is even if far on the "socially-constructed" vs objectively real spectrum, socially constructed doesn't mean "fake," which is how many understand it.
 
I quite agree.
But, if I can play devil's advocate (didn't watch the video)...perhaps he is reacting to the marshmallow generation. I, too, am sick of hearing about things from people that are deemed 'mental illnesses' when it's actually just getting through life (and my best friend is a schizophrenic who needs meds). From my reading 'resilience' is being brought more to the fore in psychological literature sidelining the virtually fatalistic (at least in pop journals) attachment theory.
 
MacArthur has a tendency to respond to sinful excesses and then completely broadbrush an entire issue. It’s like he doesn’t even try to parse the good and the bad which gives his followers a completely distorted view of an issue. Then his pastor minions quote him ad nauseum from pulpits every Sunday like he’s the pope, further spreading the nonsense and guilt tripping anyone who disagrees with him.

Are there lies in the mental health industry? Of course, but the presence of lies do not negate the validity of the real thing.

The whole “if it isn’t in the Bible it isn’t real” arguments made by the commenters in support is ludicrous. The Bible doesn’t speak on every issue. Besides, as mentioned above, our doctrine of total depravity teaches us the corruption of sin influences every part of the person and our whole being will not be fully sanctified until we are glorified.

Why did David not have PTSD? Well, David lived at a different time where hand to hand violence in war and the slaughtering of animals was commonplace. He grew up around that kind of violence from his youth. Today, we are sheltered from so much of that so if a man or woman witnesses horrendous violence in war, I imagine it can be an incredible shock to the psyche, especially when you see children killed (and even tortured) in all kinds of horrific ways. Not every soldier experiences PTSD so just because David didn’t proves absolutely nothing.

Can you imagine going through the trauma of war (or sexual abuse) and going to a Master’s trained “biblical counselor” only to be told your mental issues aren’t real and ultimately your fault? Yeah, this is one of the many reasons why I have a low view of MacArthur and his ilk.
 
There are good reasons to be skeptical of modern psychiatry. In particular, there isn't solid statistical evidence of the effectiveness of many popular psychiatric and psychotherapeutic treatments.
In Peru, where I currently live, life is quite difficult (it's a 3rd world country with a lot of crime), and there is no access to mental healthcare (the country has maybe 1/50th of the psychiatrists and psychologists the USA has, per capita).
Yet, the US has 6x more suicides per capita. When I learned that I began to question whether the mental health industry is helping or hurting. If it's helping, one would expect a country with 50x more psychiatrists to have 50x less suicides, not 6x more.
When I began to do more research I learned there are reputable scientific studies that raise serious concerns about the effectiveness of mental healthcare.

One study shows antidepressants increase suicide risk.
Another shows medication for ADHD is ineffective at treating it.
Another paper examines the reasons people think therapy helps even when it doesn't.
Another shows psychiatry in general is ineffective at treating major depression.
Another shows going to the gym is 1.5x more effective than going to the psychiatrist.

Other research points to lifestyle and ideology as intimately connected with mental health, like one study showing liberals have far poorer mental health than conservatives.
And another that shows being on social media is strongly correlated with poor mental health.
And another that shows 25% of virgins are depressed but 60% of promiscuous people.

So the take-away is most people who are depressed go to the psychiatrist, which makes things worse, when they should actually become conservative, get off social media, go to church, get some exercise, and stop sleeping with people they're not married to. (Please note I'm not denying counseling with a good counselor, which many aren't, could be helpful for some individuals).
So maybe MacArthur takes things too far, I don't know. But his advice is actually more likely to lead to happy healthy individuals than the psychiatrists' medicine cabinet.
 
If it's helping, one would expect a country with 50x more psychiatrists to have 50x less suicides, not 6x more.

How many wars has Peru fought in recently? Probably not the same rate of PTSD from warfare.

From what I am seeing, Peru has about a 14% alcoholism rate among men so they are definitely medicating to deal with their issues.
 
There are good reasons to be skeptical of modern psychiatry. In particular, there isn't solid statistical evidence of the effectiveness of many popular psychiatric and psychotherapeutic treatments.
In Peru, where I currently live, life is quite difficult (it's a 3rd world country with a lot of crime), and there is no access to mental healthcare (the country has maybe 1/50th of the psychiatrists and psychologists the USA has, per capita).
Yet, the US has 6x more suicides per capita. When I learned that I began to question whether the mental health industry is helping or hurting. If it's helping, one would expect a country with 50x more psychiatrists to have 50x less suicides, not 6x more.
When I began to do more research I learned there are reputable scientific studies that raise serious concerns about the effectiveness of mental healthcare.

One study shows antidepressants increase suicide risk.
Another shows medication for ADHD is ineffective at treating it.
Another paper examines the reasons people think therapy helps even when it doesn't.
Another shows psychiatry in general is ineffective at treating major depression.
Another shows going to the gym is 1.5x more effective than going to the psychiatrist.

Other research points to lifestyle and ideology as intimately connected with mental health, like one study showing liberals have far poorer mental health than conservatives.
And another that shows being on social media is strongly correlated with poor mental health.
And another that shows 25% of virgins are depressed but 60% of promiscuous people.

So the take-away is most people who are depressed go to the psychiatrist, which makes things worse, when they should actually become conservative, get off social media, go to church, get some exercise, and stop sleeping with people they're not married to. (Please note I'm not denying counseling with a good counselor, which many aren't, could be helpful for some individuals).
So maybe MacArthur takes things too far, I don't know. But his advice is actually more likely to lead to happy healthy individuals than the psychiatrists' medicine cabinet.
This is one of the problems. People who have no training in mental health making blanket statements of what is best for the mental health of others. Do you really think quickly scanning 5 journal papers equates to 12 years of University study and residency to become a psychiatrist? How bold to make such a statement as "is more likely to lead to happy individuals." Have you ever set foot inside of a psychiatric hospital? With people who would love nothing more than to be free from the illnesses that torture them? Do you really think voting for Trump is going to help them, or walking around their block, or doing a few jumping jacks? As Christians we are to speak where the Bible speaks, and not to add to the Word. The Bible is silent on how to treat cancer, as it is also silent on how to treat bi-polar, schizophrenia, personality disorders, and the list can go on. We do not go to the Pastor to have a tumor removed, we go to the Doctor. The same goes for mental illnesses in which the expertise of psychology (which is usually limited to verbal counseling) is not enough (whether Christian or secular) and the expertise of psychiatry is needed. At one point in history, people who suffered from mental illnesses were oft-times lobotomized, and made a walking-dead because there was no other alternative. Either that, or they were thrown in an institution and forgotten about. Is psychiatry infallible? No. But neither is theology. For statistically, there is a good chance you have more heresy coming from pulpits on a weekly basis, than you do biblical malpractice coming from psychiatrists.
 
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How many wars has Peru fought in recently? Probably not the same rate of PTSD from warfare.
You're kidding, right? They just got out of a bloody civil war with at least 70,000 deaths. That's as many deaths per capita as every war the US has ever fought in (civil war, world wars, Vietnam, Iraq, etc) combined. My wife's step-dad fought the commies here as a Peruvian marine in the 1990's before going to Iraq as a US contractor and seeing even more combat. And with all that going on, their mental health is 6 fold better than Americans.
From what I am seeing, Peru has about a 14% alcoholism rate among men so they are definitely medicating to deal with their issues.

I'm not sure what the point of this is.
If Americans go to the psychiatrist and Peruvians drink, and Americans commit suicide at 6x the rate, is that really a point in favor of psychiatry?
Also, Peruvian rates of substance abuse are not higher than those in the US. 4.8% of Peruvians have consumed an illegal drug, including Marijuana, in their lifetime, but more than half of Americans. Less than 2% of Peruvians use drugs, including marijuana, regularly. So maybe more Peruvians drink (I'm not certain that's actually the case) but the overall rates of substance abuse are actually lower than the US, it would seem.
 
Seeing the hospital I've worked at for almost 17 years has a psychiatric ward, absolutely mental illness is real. Granted, I've seen some who I truly believe were faking it to get on the gov't check, that does not make mental illness any less a reality.
 
MacArthur has a tendency to respond to sinful excesses and then completely broadbrush an entire issue. It’s like he doesn’t even try to parse the good and the bad which gives his followers a completely distorted view of an issue.

Agreed. He was not convincing when he quoted Thomas Szasz. Szasz saw a lot of abuse in Psychiatry and reacted against the abuse. But reactions do not normally give a balanced view.

Martyn Lloyd-Jones gave an insightful lecture on mental illness in 1974. He actually shows why Szasz is wrong. The medical stuff may be a little outdated but in the main I personally found it insightful:
Part A https://www.mljtrust.org/sermons/itinerant-preaching/body-mind-and-spirit-part-a/
Part B https://www.mljtrust.org/sermons/itinerant-preaching/body-mind-and-spirit-part-b/
 
Given the effects of the Fall on our bodies, it would be astonishing if our brains were the only part of our anatomy to be left unaffected. Having seen the behavioral results of traumatic brain injury on a former elder, it seemed pretty obvious that the changes he underwent (such as swearing like a sailor) were not simply the result of sin. I've also known schizophrenics who could function well so long as they kept taking their medication, but found life impossibly hard without them. So there is undoubtedly real mental illness. To be sure, not everything that people call mental illness is such, nor does real mental illness completely excuse a person's behavior. Parents of children with Down's syndrome presumably still have to discipline them, but in a way that takes into account their limitations. Pastoral care can and should function alongside medical care in such circumstances, just as pastors counsel people with cancer and cardiac issues. And of course sometimes it will take great wisdom to know how much is physical and how much is volitional - the person themselves may not be clear. There are times when pastors are way out of their depth in dealing with complex cases and can be greatly assisted by Christian (and in some cases even non-Christian) specialists who have the expertise that pastors often lack, though their work will never substitute for the pastoral care that pastors are trained to bring.
Wonderful post!! Some mental illnesses are from chemical imbalances whereas others are from brain damage due to trauma, overuasage of drugs, etc. One person and his wife or girlfriend bought Glucophage from someone who told them they were painpills. They both overdosed on them and the guy ended up with permanent brain damage as his glucose was down to 8. His wife or girlfriend, recovered without any longterm effects.
 
This is one of the problems. People who have no training in mental health making blanket statements of what is best for the mental health of others. Do you really think quickly scanning 5 journal papers equates to 12 years of University study and residency to become a psychiatrist?
This is just an argument from authority brother. According to this logic only a psychiatrist has a right to comment on psychiatry.
Moreover, these papers were written by people with the credentials you mention. Do they have a right to skepticism? If they do, then certainly I'm not in the wrong for repeating their findings.
Moreover, do you have those credentials? If you don't, why are your thoughts more valid than mine?
How bold to make such a statement as "is more likely to lead to happy individuals."
Merely expressing greater probability isn't particularly bold. If I were bold I might say something like "I'm absolutely certain and there are no exceptions." But I actually was quite a bit more measured.
Have you ever set foot inside of a psychiatric hospital? With people who would love nothing more than to be free from the illnesses that torture them?
I can do you one better. I've been to multiple psychiatrists and I've been mentally ill. (Praise the Lord that is no longer the case). One Yale psychologist told my mother when I was four years old that Christianity was responsible for my problems. Surely you think it's OK to be skeptical of that professional, right? Even with his 12 years of education?
Do you really think voting for Trump is going to help them, or walking around their block, or doing a few jumping jacks?
Well this is a bit of a straw man, but the answer is "yes." According to research, daily exercise and a worldview grounded in reality are immensely positive for mental health, and psychiatry isn't. If you think that's incorrect, feel free to point out the errors in the study.
As Christians we are to speak where the Bible speaks, and not to add to the Word. The Bible is silent on how to treat cancer, as it is also silent on how to treat bi-polar, schizophrenia, personality disorders, and the list can go on.
I disagree. I don't think the Bible is silent. Even setting aside the correlation between sin and depression, which the bible certainly speaks on, many of those diagnosed in the Bible with demon possession would fit the clinical criteria for schizophrenia, and given that modern psychiatry has no criteria for demon possession, it's fair to assume all demon possession is misdiagnosed. Now, Jesus gave specific instructions for possession ("only by prayer and fasting"). So is it really true the Bible is silent?

We're all in agreement here, I assume, that the American Psychiatric Association is in error in recommending cross-sex hormones, puberty blockers, and surgery for transgenders and in opposing any sort of "conversion therapy" for gays.
Is that not sufficient evidence that something is very, very wrong in the mental health community, and that their relationship with reality and scientific fact is tenuous?
If they get that so wrong, is it completely unthinkable they're wrong about other mental illnesses?
 
This is just an argument from authority brother. According to this logic only a psychiatrist has a right to comment on psychiatry.
Moreover, these papers were written by people with the credentials you mention. Do they have a right to skepticism? If they do, then certainly I'm not in the wrong for repeating their findings.
Moreover, do you have those credentials? If you don't, why are your thoughts more valid than mine?

Merely expressing greater probability isn't particularly bold. If I were bold I might say something like "I'm absolutely certain and there are no exceptions." But I actually was quite a bit more measured.

I can do you one better. I've been to multiple psychiatrists and I've been mentally ill. (Praise the Lord that is no longer the case). One Yale psychologist told my mother when I was four years old that Christianity was responsible for my problems. Surely you think it's OK to be skeptical of that professional, right? Even with his 12 years of education?

Well this is a bit of a straw man, but the answer is "yes." According to research, daily exercise and a worldview grounded in reality are immensely positive for mental health, and psychiatry isn't. If you think that's incorrect, feel free to point out the errors in the study.

I disagree. I don't think the Bible is silent. Even setting aside the correlation between sin and depression, which the bible certainly speaks on, many of those diagnosed in the Bible with demon possession would fit the clinical criteria for schizophrenia, and given that modern psychiatry has no criteria for demon possession, it's fair to assume all demon possession is misdiagnosed. Now, Jesus gave specific instructions for possession ("only by prayer and fasting"). So is it really true the Bible is silent?
And this would be the argument wouldnt it? If mental illness were confined to demon possession, how would medication bring relief to the possessed? One is spiritual, the other physical. So there is a chance that in the case of ailments where medication is useless, that it is demon possession, but wouldnt it seem to be the case that most of what is labeled mental illness is not demon possession since many cases can be treated with proper medication?

"The best treatments for serious mental illnesses today are highly effective; between 70 and 90 percent of individuals have a significant reduction of symptoms and improved quality of life with a combination of pharmacological and psychosocial treatments and supports."

Also, if this is the case, then the Bible is silent on how to treat it, because the Bible speaks on how to treat demon possession (spiritual) and not so much on physical ailments like mental illness, cancer, AIDS, diabetes, etc. For these ailments, you would go to professionals that are experts in these diseases, not so much the pastor to treat the physical sides of the issue. With that being said, I am not saying the spiritual aspect is not as important, or even more important; but that sometimes people who are not well versed in one area, can step out of their lane, and act as if they are. I think MacArthur is doing this with his blanket statements regarding the issue, and it wouldnt surprise me; he tried to act like a Virologist during COVID as if it didnt kill a million people in the US alone.
 
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And this would be the argument wouldnt it? If mental illness were confined to demon possession, how would medication bring relief to the possessed?
It doesn't. I just shared multiple studies that make that point. I have myself been medicated, and it did not help me, and it brought very, very unpleasant side effects.
What did help me though was exercise, prayer, time in nature, and conversion to Christ, none of which had any negative side effects, although you appear to be mocking that as a valid approach ("a few jumping jacks").
 
"The best treatments for serious mental illnesses today are highly effective; between 70 and 90 percent of individuals have a significant reduction of symptoms and improved quality of life with a combination of pharmacological and psychosocial treatments and supports."
This is a lower quality source than the ones I shared.
But putting that aside, this specifies a combination of pharmacological and non-pharmacological treatment is effective, which means is can't support the effectiveness of psychiatry, because it confuses causes. Double-blind studies and those that study just psychiatry show it's not effective, like one I shared that compares therapy alone to therapy plus medication and finds medication doesn't improve outcomes.
You seem to have brushed aside the resources I shared though without giving them serious consideration though, which is a shame, because they are serious, scientific studies.
 
It doesn't. I just shared multiple studies that make that point. I have myself been medicated, and it did not help me, and it brought very, very unpleasant side effects.
What did help me though was exercise, prayer, time in nature, and conversion to Christ, none of which had any negative side effects, although you appear to be mocking that as a valid approach ("a few jumping jacks").
I am not mocking it at all. I have just known someone very close to me that has dealt very extensively with mental health. I remember when they first started experiencing their episodes, they ran to the church; and the Pastor was dumbfounded as the person sitting in front of them was rambling thinking they were Neo from the Matrix. As this person tells it, he recalled going up to the elders and getting anointed with oil, as the voices were screaming in his head. He tells me about the times he was restrained, stripped naked, and put in padded rooms, with nothing over him but a weighted smock, and a hole in the ground to use the restroom in. Or the times he was forcibly bound and tied to a gurney, and sedated. This is not to mention the times he left a perfectly good home to go play out his manic fantasies, walking miles and miles thinking every crack in the concrete had world annihilating consequences. Or even the suicide attempts, not from wanting to end his life, but because his sickness convinced him his death was the pathway to reality. But then he recalls when he finally started taking his medication; after all those times of taking it briefly only to believe he was "cured," yet falling back into devastating psychosis. I guess its like you, when it is you, or someone close to you that has suffered, you form very strong opinions about what does and doesnt work. But to this guy I know, he is just as grateful to God to be able to live a normal life, medication or not; the same as if Jesus told him directly "pick up your mat and walk."
 
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