Instruments in Worship?

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by Dan....
Thanks Andrew. I've heard the concept before, I just didn't know the tecnical name.

So do you end each line with a whole note to make the flow sound better (i.e., while the congregation is holding the last note for a full measure, the leader recites the next line), or does all svoices stop while the leader recites the next line???

[Edited on 8-9-2005 by Dan....]

As it was practiced by the old Scots or today's Steelites, I don't have the first-hand experience to answer this question. As it practiced by our church, the psalm selection is read (not sung) and then we sing. Our practice is motivated not by illiteracy in the congregation, but by the desire to sing with understanding.

 

[LawrenceU]

Okay, I'm going to open another related can of worms.

>>For the record-I'm not opposed to the use of instruments in worship. I am very familiar with acappella worship - as in most of my life.

Given that, I'm troubled at the seeming proposition that all music in the church house must be 'good'. I've pastored congregation of acapella only folks that in no way could their singing be 'good' by man's measure, yet I'm sure that God found it beautiful. Pitch, tone, metre and rythm are never found in Scripture to be benchmarks of acceptable worship.

 

[Puritanhead]

I'm opposed to the use of mimes in worship...

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Lining Psalms

For an argument against the necessity of lining the psalms, and some historical background, see The Westminster Directory for Public Worship and the Lining of the Psalms,
http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/lining.htm

 

[Arch2k]

Originally posted by LawrenceU
Pitch, tone, metre and rythm are never found in Scripture to be benchmarks of acceptable worship.

 

[JohnV]

Originally posted by Dan....
Two questions:

1. What is "lining the psalms"???

2. (Specific to the instrument-tolerant side) What about instrumental music (without singing) accompany the collection of the tithe/offering or the distribution of the Lord's Supper? Can any argue that such is circumstance in the same manner as lights and microphones? If it is not aiding in the singing of psalms and hymns, is it lawful?

To question two, I would compare it to the circumstance of the beauty of the building, not things like lights or microphone. There are two camps there too. A plain unadorned building, compared with one appropriate to the reverence and respect the people pay to the house of worship. Or clothing: some would say, "You'd get all dressed up to meet the President, wouldn't you? So shouldn't you do so even more to meet with God?" And some would say that it is not how you dress outwardly, but how you dress inwardly. Over opulence is as wrong a reckless slovinliness. These are circumstances of the heart, not of the technical necessities.

 

[Dan....]

John,

Thanks for the input.

I'm not sure that answers the question.

Let me rephrase the question. The instrument-tolerant are arguing that the instrument is a circumstance of worship, just like the lights, the microphone, the pews, heat and a/c (and I guess you can say, even the building). These "circumstances" are meant to aid the worshiper, that he may be more attentive, that he be not distracted, etc...

The use of musical instruments, the instrument-tolerant argue, is to aid the worshippers in their singing psalms and hymns, that their be less distractions (e.g. that might be caused by singing off key, etc...).

Following that line of reasoning, can anyone give a valid or similar reason to have instrumental accompaniment to the collection of tithes and offerings (at which point, I've never seen the congregation singing) ?

Simply put: Can instrumental music be played at any time during the worship service apart from congregational singing? If so, why? How can one defend this practice in light of the RPW?

 

[JohnV]

Dan:

I wasn't trying to answer the question. I've already put my view in that I think it too wooden to think of this as mere circumstance or element. We're talking about music, but we're not talking about music.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Originally posted by Peter

Originally posted by Puritanhead
Yeah bring in the electric guitars and the bongos, and we can party lot charismatics!

And the goats and bulls, and we can party like the Levites!

Unless of course it is a pitch pipe - that doesn't count.

Our church doesn't use pitch pipes.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Fred said:
As the EPers have insistently stated: there must be a command from the Bible for something to be an element of worship. The non-instrumental position is that instruments are an element (like drama) NOT a circumstance. So I will await the Scriptures that (a) state that instruments are commanded - OUTSIDE of the context of song, and (b) then state that such an element is no longer commanded - because even EPers state that such an element WAS commanded previously (which makes it different from the "only psalms were ever commanded argument).

2 Chronicles 26 The Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets. 27 Then Hezekiah commanded that the burnt offering be offered on the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song to the Lord began also, and the trumpets, accompanied by the instruments of David king of Israel. 28 The whole assembly worshiped, and the singers sang and the trumpeters sounded. All this continued until the burnt offering was finished.

1 Chronicles 15:16 David also commanded the chiefs of the Levites to appoint their brothers as the singers who should play loudly on musical instruments, on harps and lyres and cymbals, to raise sounds of joy.

2 Chronicles 7:6 The priests stood at their posts; the Levites also, with the instruments for music to the Lord that King David had made for giving thanks to the Lord"”for his steadfast love endures forever"”whenever David offered praises by their ministry; opposite them the priests sounded trumpets, and all Israel stood.

2 Chronicles 34:12 And the men did the work faithfully. Over them were set Jahath and Obadiah the Levites, of the sons of Merari, and Zechariah and Meshullam, of the sons of the Kohathites, to have oversight. The Levites, all who were skillful with instruments of music,

+

Hebrews 7:11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Hebrews 7:18 On the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

Hebrews 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

=

Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 13:15 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.