Davidius
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I know that some of the Baptists on the board get upset when some Presbyterians say that Baptists aren't Reformed. Well, it appears as though we're being quite lenient, and in comparison to Baptists, nonetheless! Recently I was looking at the websites of churches in Darmstadt, Germany and came across an article at the "Bibel Baptisten Gemeinde" (Bible Baptist Church) entitled "Baptisten sind keine Protestanten" (Baptists are not Protestants). Here is the link to a full English translation.
(note: I obviously think this is ridiculous. It's just funny and I wanted to share it because it is an example of Baptists who are trying very hard not to be affiliated with the Reformed, for some silly and obviously bad reasons.)
I'll quote some particularly interesting passages:
If you click on "Sign our Guestbook" and then "Read Entires," you'll see that I linked them to the London Baptist Confession.
(note: I obviously think this is ridiculous. It's just funny and I wanted to share it because it is an example of Baptists who are trying very hard not to be affiliated with the Reformed, for some silly and obviously bad reasons.)
I'll quote some particularly interesting passages:
Historically Baptists Are Not Protestants
Protestants date from the sixteenth century. They are the Lutherans, the Reformed and others who were once Roman Catholics and left the Roman Catholic faith to start denominations of their own. The Baptists never left the Roman Catholic church as did Luther, Calvin and Zwingli. They never left because they were never in. They did not begin their existence at the time of the Reformation but hundreds of years prior to the Reformation.
Baptists make no effort to trace a historical succesion back to the age of the Apostles. Their only claim is that at every age in church history there have been groups that have held to the same doctrines that Baptists hold today. These groups may or may not have been connected and they have been known by various names. There were the Montanists (150 A.D.), the Novatians (240 A.D.), Donatists (305 A.D.), Paulicians (650 A.D.) , Albigenses (1022 A.D.), Waldensians (1170 A.D.) and the name Anabaptists came into prominence just before the time of the Protestant Reformation.
Full historical data immediately refutes the view that there was only one religious group - the Roman Catholic church until the time of martin Luther. Anyone who claims this simply has not done his homework.
I wish to purposely introduce non-Baptist testimony to the great antiquity of Baptist people. Cardinal Hosius (1504-1579) was a Roman Catholic prelate who had as his life work the investigation and suppression of non-Catholic groups. By pope Paul IV he was designated one of the three papal presidents of the famous Council of Trent. Hosius carried on vigoriously the work of the counter-reformation. If anyone in the post-reformation times knew the doctrines and history of non-Catholic groups, it was Hosius. Cardinal Hosius says, "Were it not that the Baptists have benn grievously tormented and cut off with the knive during the past 1,200 years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers" (Letters Apud Opera, pp. 112,113). Note carefully that this knowledgeable Catholic scholar has spoken of the vicious persecution Baptists have endured, that he clearly distinguishes them from the Reformers and that he dates them 1,200 years before the Protestant Reformation.
It is also evident that the Baptists were not Protestants because they were fiercely persecuted by the Protestant Reformers and their followers. Uncounted, thousands of them lost their goods, their lands and their lives in these persecutions. Konrad Grebel died in prison in 1526. Felix Manz was drowned by the authorities at Zurich 1527. Noted baptist leader Balthauser Hubmaier was burned alive at the stake in Vienna March 10, 1528. Three days later his wife was drowned by being thrown over the Danube bridge with a stone tied to her neck. The facts abundantly attest that historically Baptists are not Protestants.
Doctrinally Baptists Are Not Protestants
The viewpoint that Baptists share common doctrinal ground with Protestant groups is not an accurate reporting of the facts. There are six striking differences.
(1) Baptists believe with all their hearts that God´s Word alone is sufficient for faith and practice. We read "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine..." ( II Timothy 3:16). Various Protestant denomination have creeds, catechisms and assorted doctrinal standards. Baptists hold to the Bible alone.
(2) Baptists believe that Christ and only Christ is the head of the Church, even as the Scripture says "Christ is the Head of the Church" (Ephesians 5:23). There is no man who has the oversight of Baptist Churches. Baptists have no denomination in the sense of an organization that controls local congregations. Each local church is autonomous and accountable only to Christ, who is its Head. A Baptist Church, while fellowshipping with congregations of like faith and practice, has no headquarters in St. Louis, Nashville or New York City. Its headquarters is in Heaven.
(3) Baptists believe in their hearts in a free church in a free state. Christ plainly taught that the state and the church each had its own realm when he said "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar´s; and unto God the things which are God´s" (Matthew 22:21). Baptists are vigoriously opposed to union of state and church and believe that a state controlled church is a wretched excuse for Christianity and a plain departure from Scripture. All of the Protestant Reformers fastened state state churches upon their followers! Today Americans enjoy separation of church and state because of the vigor and vigilance of Baptists in the early days of our national history.
(4) Baptists believe strongly in the individual accountability to God because the Scriptures clearly teach that "everyone of us shall give account of himself to God" (Romans 14:12). A priest cannot answer for you, a church cannot answer for you to God. God-parents cannot answer for you. No one is saved because of what his parents believe. No one is saved because of his identification with any any religion. He will account for himself to God. Protestants generally do not hold this Scriptural doctrine.
(5) Baptist people furthermore have always held to believer´s baptism. None of the Protestant Reformers held this Bible teaching. In the Scriptures faith and repentance always preceded baptism. On the day of Pentecost Peter plainly told the people "repent and be baptized" (Acts 2:38). This obviously means that there is no infant baptism. since infants are incapable of repenting. No unbelievers are to be baptized. The Reformers followed Rome in their teaching of baptism. Baptists have held stedfastly to the doctrine of Christ and His Apostles on this point.
(6) Baptists on the basis of Scripture have always held to a regenerate church membership, that is a membership that is made up only of people who give a credible profession of faith in Christ. In the Apostolic church only those who became believers, those who received the Word of God and who had repented of their sins, were baptized and received as church members (Acts 2:41). There was no automatic or formalistic membership in apostolic churches nor in Baptist churches today.
From the review of these simple points it is more than clear that doctrinally Baptists are not Protestants.
If you click on "Sign our Guestbook" and then "Read Entires," you'll see that I linked them to the London Baptist Confession.