toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
They should be holding the Psalter.
That approximates my answer, which was going to be "at the ends of your arms".
Hands in Worship
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That approximates my answer, which was going to be "at the ends of your arms".
Wayne
Tempus faciendi, Domine.
They should be holding the Psalter.
That approximates my answer, which was going to be "at the ends of your arms".
I was going to say, "Limp, hanging at your sides, in good Presbyterian fashion."
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
I must have missed that day in the Moderator 101 class (or I stepped out to power my wig). You must share!
I often lift my hands in prayer during the service, but I am the pastor. As far as the congregation goes, there should be uniformity (or unity) in whichever action is taken, In my humble opinion. If only a few people lift hands, that is distracting from worship. On the other hand (no pun intended), the Missus and I once attended a PCA church where virtually everyone (congregation around 200) lifted hands during the doxology. It was not distracting (though surprising the first time we saw it!) and very reverent.
Does there need to be uniformity in all thing?
-----Added 8/27/2009 at 05:47:48 EST-----
They should be holding the Psalter.
I suppose you could raise your hands and tap your feet to the Psalter too...those Genevan jigs are pretty catchy.
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
I often lift my hands in prayer during the service, but I am the pastor. As far as the congregation goes, there should be uniformity (or unity) in whichever action is taken, In my humble opinion. If only a few people lift hands, that is distracting from worship. On the other hand (no pun intended), the Missus and I once attended a PCA church where virtually everyone (congregation around 200) lifted hands during the doxology. It was not distracting (though surprising the first time we saw it!) and very reverent.
Does there need to be uniformity in all thing?
No, but there needs to be unity. I distinguished between the two in a later post and apologized for my clumsy use of the two terms.
coramdeo
Puritan Board Sophomore
for what it's worth, my Exegeses Ready Research Bible renders Psalm 9:1 thus...
I will praise thee shall extend hands . O Lord, Yah Veh,
with my whole heart;
I will shew forth shall scribe all thy marvelous works.
I haven't taken the time to look it up but I am sure it occurs other places in the Psalms as well. So lifting hands in worship seems to this layman to have warrant.
I will praise thee shall extend hands . O Lord, Yah Veh,
with my whole heart;
I will shew forth shall scribe all thy marvelous works.
I haven't taken the time to look it up but I am sure it occurs other places in the Psalms as well. So lifting hands in worship seems to this layman to have warrant.
blhowes
Puritan Board Professor
I'm one of those "stay put" types. I think if I were to try the opposite thing, and started raising my hands, after a few seconds I'd probably be asking myself, "Why do you have your hands up in the air?". It'd be such an unnatural thing to do.
I am, though, interested in trying to understand the "other side". For those who do raise your hands while singing or during other times of worship, why do you do it? What are you expressing to God when you raise your hands?
Spinningplates2
Puritan Board Freshman
During Worship when a person lifts their arms it cannot help but be noticed and takes away focus from God. Even if that is not the purpose of the person whos lifted their arms some people will wonder if that person is more spiritual, or they may think that is what it takes to get noticed as someone "who is not afraid" to Praise the Lord.
Clapping the hands...no way.
People have been worshipping the Lord for two thousand years and it seems a common link down a possible wrong road, i.e. Montanist, Shakers, Anti-baptist is the mocking of God "Chosen Frozen" for the way the simply sit and listen to the Word being preached.
That being said, I know a ton of people who I love disagree and lift their hands all the time in the Churches they attend. But they also love to wear cutoffs and sandlles to Church also.
Clapping the hands...no way.
People have been worshipping the Lord for two thousand years and it seems a common link down a possible wrong road, i.e. Montanist, Shakers, Anti-baptist is the mocking of God "Chosen Frozen" for the way the simply sit and listen to the Word being preached.
That being said, I know a ton of people who I love disagree and lift their hands all the time in the Churches they attend. But they also love to wear cutoffs and sandlles to Church also.
chbrooking
Puritan Board Junior
I am amazed at how worshipers are being judged -- and with absolute confidence -- as to their motives and thoughts. I am also amazed at how the persnickety judges are more focused on what OTHERS are doing, and are so easily distracted. When I was in school, we had a way of dealing with distractions -- SIT UP FRONT. If someone's hands in the air is going to take your mind off God, then sit closer to the front. Get the speck out of your own eye before you presume there's a log in another worshiper's. Don't ridicule them for worshipping in a biblical manner. Just because you aren't comfortable with it -- or just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it wrong. The Bible condones (prescribes?) it; who are you do disapprove? Some have indicated that they wouldn't feel natural worshipping with their hands raised. Okay, but you can't determine what is "natural" for someone else -- especially when, not only is there no prohibition, there is explicit permission (command?).
I apologize for what may be perceived as venom -- it's not really. But the matter hits kind of close to home for me, for reasons I won't go into.
I apologize for what may be perceived as venom -- it's not really. But the matter hits kind of close to home for me, for reasons I won't go into.
Wow! I didn't realize I was going to be away from the computer so long. Thanks for this marvelous discussion!
Many of you have raised ideas or concerns that have gone through my own mind -- the need for worship to be dignified and in order, the unity of the body, and so forth. Someone asked why? Two thoughts come to mind; one, if there does seem to be some Biblical basis. Secondly, it is a reaction of my own in private worship.
I was purposely vague about when in worship to see what folks would say. The closest we come to any of this in my own church is a fella that opens his hands up slightly in front of himself to "receive" the benediction. (We're not exactly foot stomping, waving kind of folks, but a great group of believers.)
Sometime in the last year or so, I heard a respected teacher say that he hasn't seen a place in the Bible where everyone is sitting down with their heads bowed in prayer -- the modern most common "manner." Lifting hands, kneeling, or both might be more appropriate. (Although I understand the public/private distinction -- going down on your face might not be the most orderly thing to do in public.)
I think this is a valuable discussion. Thanks!
Many of you have raised ideas or concerns that have gone through my own mind -- the need for worship to be dignified and in order, the unity of the body, and so forth. Someone asked why? Two thoughts come to mind; one, if there does seem to be some Biblical basis. Secondly, it is a reaction of my own in private worship.
I was purposely vague about when in worship to see what folks would say. The closest we come to any of this in my own church is a fella that opens his hands up slightly in front of himself to "receive" the benediction. (We're not exactly foot stomping, waving kind of folks, but a great group of believers.)
Sometime in the last year or so, I heard a respected teacher say that he hasn't seen a place in the Bible where everyone is sitting down with their heads bowed in prayer -- the modern most common "manner." Lifting hands, kneeling, or both might be more appropriate. (Although I understand the public/private distinction -- going down on your face might not be the most orderly thing to do in public.)
I think this is a valuable discussion. Thanks!
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21st Century Calvinist
Puritan Board Junior
At my church we are invited to raise our hands for the singing of the doxology. We are also invited to stretch forth our hands to receive the benediction. This is a corporate action. But is the unity destroyed when there are people present who do not raise their hands? Similarly if someone chooses not to sing is the unity destroyed? Should we then not sing?
Honor
de-cool
I would like to know how you can not raise your hands??? When you are standing with your brothers and sisters worshipping the Most Holy God, singing praises to Him how an you not raise your hands or stop the tears of love and emotion? When I watch a football game I jump up and yell when my team makes a great play. When my son works hard to accomplish something I praise him with hugs and our little happy dance. I play air guitar in the car on a new spring day after a long winter.... How then can we not praise our God... the Maker of Heaven and Earth, the Savior of our wretched soul with even an ounce of emotion. David danced till he was naked. The Lord had special angels flying around the throne night and day praising Him, why should we who have waaaay more to be grateful for than the angels go into corprate worship and stand there like our hope, our joy is no more than a cod fish?
rbcbob
Puritan Board Graduate
Prufrock
Arbitrary Moderation
I have a series of questions to pose, but will begin them by stating that I have no strict problem with the raising of hands while singing per se; and I also feel that this is an issue which needs to be handled with great care and delicacy. The first question is this:
For those who do raise hands while singing in public worship, do you also do the same during the reading and/or preaching of the word?
For those who do raise hands while singing in public worship, do you also do the same during the reading and/or preaching of the word?
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
chbrooking
Puritan Board Junior
Scottish Lass
Puritan Board Doctor
My answer may vary from Prufrock's, but I would say because the reading and preaching of the Word are also worship. Why would one limit it to music (if one does so)?
Prufrock
Arbitrary Moderation
Thanks for weighing in, Clark (and note, I am not attempting with this question to argue or convince: this really is simply a question on my part).
I find it significant because I don't see the difference. In both elements, the content is the Word of God: the difference is two fold: 1.) The subject -- in the reading of the Word, the subject being the pastor; in singing, the congregation; and 2.) The form -- in the former, the Word is read simply; in the latter, rhythmically.
I don't understand why the two should produce differing emotional responses. If we feel a burning to desire to do so when singing the Word, why not also when reading or hearing the word? (Since, I imagine, no one wants to say its the same emotional quality of music which one would find during the singing of Free Bird at a Skynyrd concert that makes us sway or lift our hands).
I find it significant because I don't see the difference. In both elements, the content is the Word of God: the difference is two fold: 1.) The subject -- in the reading of the Word, the subject being the pastor; in singing, the congregation; and 2.) The form -- in the former, the Word is read simply; in the latter, rhythmically.
I don't understand why the two should produce differing emotional responses. If we feel a burning to desire to do so when singing the Word, why not also when reading or hearing the word? (Since, I imagine, no one wants to say its the same emotional quality of music which one would find during the singing of Free Bird at a Skynyrd concert that makes us sway or lift our hands).
eqdj
Puritan Board Freshman
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
I heard someone joke once that this is the reason why so many churches have switched to PowerPoint -- so that your hands are free to wave during the service!
Vonnie Dee
Puritan Board Freshman
I agree that no one should be forced to raise their hands if they choose not to. However, I would feel stiffled if I was banned from it. As it is now, no one has said not to raise my hands but there are about 10 people who raise their hands high as we sing on Sunday. I generally don't raise my hands higher than my shoulders if I do. I appreciate not having to hold a hynmal, even though we sing hymns, so that my hands are free to lift if I so choose. I don't raise my hand during Bible reading. However, I do say, "Amen" if I'm moved to do so. And this tidbit is free. If we wanted to kneel during worship there are lots of orderly ways to do it. The Catholics and the Muslims come to mind. Finally, when I read about worship in the Bible, the picture in my mind is very different than what I participate in on Sunday. Oh, and here's one more 
on the unity, everybody the same topic. I am the only woman in my church that covers for worship. My husband and I think that is required. Do I not wear it because everyone else isn't?
And this tidbit is free. If we wanted to kneel during worship there are lots of orderly ways to do it. The Catholics and the Muslims come to mind. Finally, when I read about worship in the Bible, the picture in my mind is very different than what I participate in on Sunday. Oh, and here's one more on the unity, everybody the same topic. I am the only woman in my church that covers for worship. My husband and I think that is required. Do I not wear it because everyone else isn't?
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
I don't like it. It smacks of pentecostalism. That and I just feel uncomfortable doing it.
So I construct an argument to vindicate my tastes and establish my opinion as being pious.
So I construct an argument to vindicate my tastes and establish my opinion as being pious.
he beholds
Puritan Board Doctor
I know that I would prefer to lift my hands but don't, because I am thinking about other people. So that is also distracting.
And there, now you all know that I am self-conscious.
I think the reading of the word varies from the singing of it. If it didn't, why do we sing? I think they are all a part of worship, but I do think they have different roles. Singing is, as far as I understand, our chance to physically worship God, while hearing the word is our chance to mentally.
I do believe that singing involves our minds, as well, but I don't see how one can say there is no distinction. We are offering something to God with song, where as with hearing the word, we are accepting something from him.
And there, now you all know that I am self-conscious.
I think the reading of the word varies from the singing of it. If it didn't, why do we sing? I think they are all a part of worship, but I do think they have different roles. Singing is, as far as I understand, our chance to physically worship God, while hearing the word is our chance to mentally.
I do believe that singing involves our minds, as well, but I don't see how one can say there is no distinction. We are offering something to God with song, where as with hearing the word, we are accepting something from him.
chbrooking
Puritan Board Junior
Paul,
It's funny how so many issues on the PB are intertwined. This touches the EP issue a bit. Even so, I would say you have outlined a significant difference yourself, in that the ministry of the word is passive (not that we listen passively, but that we only participate receptively). Singing is, by definition, active -- physically active. Beyond that, though, I know there is biblical warrant with regard to prayer and song. I'm not aware of anything that would parallel the sermon or scripture reading. But you've given me a new lens through which to search, so thanks.
It's funny how so many issues on the PB are intertwined. This touches the EP issue a bit. Even so, I would say you have outlined a significant difference yourself, in that the ministry of the word is passive (not that we listen passively, but that we only participate receptively). Singing is, by definition, active -- physically active. Beyond that, though, I know there is biblical warrant with regard to prayer and song. I'm not aware of anything that would parallel the sermon or scripture reading. But you've given me a new lens through which to search, so thanks.
Knoxienne
Puritan Board Graduate
Exactly. And my rhetorical question is if we're reformed and semper reformanda, why would we want anything to do with stuff like that? What's the point of being reformed, then?
busdriver72
Puritan Board Freshman
Simple raising of hands doesn't bother me.
It's when they look like they're swatting flies.....and the persons next to them have to start ducking....that's a bit much.
I especially like the raising hand technique where they repeatedly stab their hand in the air and flick their wrist like they're trying to sling a booger off their finger.
It's when they look like they're swatting flies.....and the persons next to them have to start ducking....that's a bit much.
I especially like the raising hand technique where they repeatedly stab their hand in the air and flick their wrist like they're trying to sling a booger off their finger.
chbrooking
Puritan Board Junior
I wouldn't agree with the assertion that it is out of conformity with reformation principles. Nor with the presumption that it is done to emulate the pentecostals. I don't think we should proscribe a biblical practice by association. If it's biblical, it's biblical. If it's not, it's not. But if you are convinced that it's not biblical, then make the case.
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