Hands in Worship

[jwithnell]

What should your hands be doing during worship? Because of the emotionalism of some branches of Christianity, I think we reformed folks have concluded: sit on them. But I'm not sure that's what we see in scripture. There, we see hands lifted in prayer and praise. So what do you understand to be the most Biblical practice here?

 

[Marrow Man]

I often lift my hands in prayer during the service, but I am the pastor. As far as the congregation goes, there should be uniformity (or unity) in whichever action is taken, In my humble opinion. If only a few people lift hands, that is distracting from worship. On the other hand (no pun intended), the Missus and I once attended a PCA church where virtually everyone (congregation around 200) lifted hands during the doxology. It was not distracting (though surprising the first time we saw it!) and very reverent.

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

I dont think that we can set a rule of you must or must not lift your hands. Personally I am not much of a hand raiser but I know people who are and it is not distracting to me as I am well used to it.

 

[Guido's Brother]

Depends on what part of the worship service you're talking about. For instance, your hands might be doing something different during the sermon (which is also "worship") than during prayer, song, or offertory.

 

[ewenlin]

Depends on what part of the worship service you're talking about. For instance, your hands might be doing something different during the sermon (which is also "worship") than during prayer, song, or offertory.

Raise your hand during the sermon? Got a question? Hahaha. sorry

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

Depends on what part of the worship service you're talking about. For instance, your hands might be doing something different during the sermon (which is also "worship") than during prayer, song, or offertory.

If you want to go this route... our whole lives are an act of worship so..... oh never mind.

 

[chbrooking]

Why must there be uniformity? Why are some distracted by the (biblical) actions of others during worship? If you are raising your hands to draw attention to yourself, that's clearly problematic. But I think it is also problematic to hinder biblical expressions of worship. Sometimes I think we risk losing the individual in our attempt at unity. That I worship with you doesn't mean that I don't also worship individually. If I'm having to refrain from biblical expressions of worship to avoid distracting or offending you, then you've distracted me by putting an unbiblical restraint on my worship. I have to be thinking about you instead of God. Distraction works both ways.

 

[Knoxienne]

Just my opinion, but...

The lifting of holy hands mentioned in scripture, like many things, is tied to the temple, before Christ. So many outward things were done to point to Christ back then. We have clean hands because of Christ's redemption and we have the real thing, not just the symbol now. Why do we need to raise our hands? I can understand the pastor doing it during the invocation and benediction, since it's just the pastor and he's praying for us (acting as a priest). And I actually don't like to see a pastor do it too much either, because it seems Romish.

I don't do it and I don't like to see it in church. To me, it's hyper-emotional and and has ties with charismania and a feminized, matriarchal church-structure, i.e., emotionalism, sentimentality and subjectivism.

Again, that's just the way I see it. I'm not judging anyone with another view and I'm not judging anyone who does it or advocates it of being unorthodox. I'm just a minimalist and like the bare essentials in worship.

 

[chbrooking]

1 Tim. 2:8 -- not old testament

 

[Knoxienne]

1 Tim. 2:8 -- not old testament

The temple wasn't destroyed yet.

 

[LeeJUk]

Yeah I think we've over-reacted to the charismatic movement. So much so that we are all very pious and nicely dressed and such but really I mean a lot of time our worship can just be deadness. In fact I think that one thing we need to get back to is really considering the cross, if the cross doesn't make us emotional you know, maybe there's a problem with us.

We must worship in truth, but we must also worship in Spirit.

Also knoxienne, even if the temple wasn't destroyed yet. Did Paul ever say the reason you are to raise your hands is because the temple is still there, or that this practice should cease when the temple has gone?

 

[chbrooking]

1 Tim. 2:8 -- not old testament

The temple wasn't destroyed yet.

By this line of reasoning, we are free to accept what we want and reject what we don't like.

 

[rbcbob]

What should your hands be doing during worship? Because of the emotionalism of some branches of Christianity, I think we reformed folks have concluded: sit on them. But I'm not sure that's what we see in scripture. There, we see hands lifted in prayer and praise. So what do you understand to be the most Biblical practice here?

I try to make the distinction between the private and the corporate. When in my "prayer closet" I may kneel, stand, sit, lay prostrate, or any combination of the above. But when I enter the public assembly I check my personal preferences at the door in order to meet the "all things done decently and in order" principal.

 

[Megan Mozart]

My church is pretty mixed I think. Maybe slightly more than half of the people don't raise their hands, and the other half do.

I raise my hands sometimes. Actually, during most songs, I am often doing something with my hands, whether they're raised with arms outstretched, or just simply one arm with an open palm, or I clap my hands, or a fold them together. I don't really think about it. I get pretty emotional during worship (a mixture of love for God and I am always one to get into the music) and naturally for me what follows as an outpouring my emotions is a variety of movements.

I have never thought about if the bible asks us to do it a certain way. To me I've always thought of it as, to some people it's natural to be physical, to others, it's natural to stay put.

If scripture doesn't say we should do it one way or the other, maybe we could all benefit from trying the opposite thing. That's how I started. But then you're not focusing on Christ. Or maybe this doesn't matter at all and we don't have to think about it. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[Marrow Man]

1 Timothy 2:8 is also tied to the lifting up of hands in prayer, not in song.

As far as uniformity goes, should that not be a characteristic of worship? Hopefully, everyone is singing the same songs, listening to the same prayers, etc. I would think we would critical of churches were some of the congregation is embroiled in liturgical dance, some is singing, some is painting pictures, etc. etc.

I will confession that the "unity/uniformity" idea is not original with me. I heard Joey Pipa make that point several years ago and it has always stuck with me, For what it's worth.

 

[SemperEruditio]

1 Timothy 2:8 is also tied to the lifting up of hands in prayer, not in song.

As far as uniformity goes, should that not be a characteristic of worship? Hopefully, everyone is singing the same songs, listening to the same prayers, etc. I would think we would critical of churches were some of the congregation is embroiled in liturgical dance, some is singing, some is painting pictures, etc. etc.

I will confession that the "unity/uniformity" idea is not original with me. I heard Joey Pipa make that point several years ago and it has always stuck with me, For what it's worth.

That's a bit of a stretch no? How far are we taking uniformity? Dress code? How about assigning people to pews based on height? Should it be tall in the front or in the back?

 

[chbrooking]

Prayer or song -- both part of worship. And there's plenty of evidence in the Psalms. I just chose this b/c it is NT. Shouldn't we assume continuity unless discontinuity is explicit? I don't recall there being a prohibition or reversal of the many places in the Psalms that call us to lift our hands in song.

As for unity/uniformity, where is the line to be drawn? Should we all wear the same things, too? Should we only pray in unison? Is there no place for individual prayer or reflection? I'm all for order, but order does not require absolute uniformity. Demanding utter uniformity for the sake of unity risks, In my humble opinion, making our worship mechanical. As I said, I worship with the body, and in the same Spirit. But nevertheless, I worship.

-----Added 8/27/2009 at 02:18:58 EST-----

Sorry Frank,
you beat me to post

 

[Marrow Man]

1 Timothy 2:8 is also tied to the lifting up of hands in prayer, not in song.

As far as uniformity goes, should that not be a characteristic of worship? Hopefully, everyone is singing the same songs, listening to the same prayers, etc. I would think we would critical of churches were some of the congregation is embroiled in liturgical dance, some is singing, some is painting pictures, etc. etc.

I will confession that the "unity/uniformity" idea is not original with me. I heard Joey Pipa make that point several years ago and it has always stuck with me, For what it's worth.

That's a bit of a stretch no? How far are we taking uniformity? Dress code? How about assigning people to pews based on height? Should it be tall in the front or in the back?

No, it would be a bit of a stretch to take the analogy too far. It is actions in worship being discussed, not dress or seating order. What takes place in worship should be done to promote the unity of the body of Christ, not facilitate divisions within. And certainly we should not promote the idea that those who lift their hands are more pious than those who not, which is the proverbial elephant in the room in this discussion. I know you are not saying this, but it is a possible concern if such a division takes place within the context of worship.

 

[chbrooking]

So I should be thinking about how you may be thinking about what I'm thinking when I worship? Wow! This is just the problem! You (plural) are suggesting that raising hands is distracting, but so is a restriction on it. And such a restriction isn't biblical. In fact, if anything, those who aren't doing what the Bible has indicated is appropriate in worship, are on the thinner ice than those who are.

 

[Marrow Man]

Prayer or song -- both part of worship. And there's plenty of evidence in the Psalms. I just chose this b/c it is NT. Shouldn't we assume continuity unless discontinuity is explicit? I don't recall there being a prohibition or reversal of the many places in the Psalms that call us to lift our hands in song.

The question was posed about how this relates to Temple worship, you responded:

1 Tim. 2:8 -- not old testament

And I merely pointed out that verse is tied to prayer, not lifting hands in songs of praise unto good. I do not disagree with your comments about the psalms, but lifting that verse out of its immediate context can also be problematic. I was pointing out there is a distinction to be made so that we do not view 1 Timothy 2:8 as an exegetical magic bullet.

 

[Marrow Man]

So I should be thinking about how you may be thinking about what I'm thinking when I worship? Wow! This is just the problem! You (plural) are suggesting that raising hands is distracting, but so is a restriction on it. And such a restriction isn't biblical. In fact, if anything, those who aren't doing what the Bible has indicated is appropriate in worship, are on the thinner ice than those who are.

Let me make a correction in my use of terminology. "Unity" and "uniformity" do not mean the same thing, and I should not be conflating the two. More properly speaking, we should have "unity" in worship, but "uniformity" may be quite another thing.

Raising hands can be distracting. So can not raising hands. There should be broad agreement and understanding in the church. Obviously, anyone reading my first post on this thread would see that I am not in objection to it, since I do it and since I once attended a church which did it (in unity). But I also became a Christian in the late 1980s and was quickly exposed to a neo-charismatic culture where is was expected you do such things in "worship" and if you did not you were not viewed as being as spiritual as others. This is something I, as a pastor, would want to guard against. But I have suggested it be "restricted," either.

 

[SemperEruditio]

1 Timothy 2:8 is also tied to the lifting up of hands in prayer, not in song.

As far as uniformity goes, should that not be a characteristic of worship? Hopefully, everyone is singing the same songs, listening to the same prayers, etc. I would think we would critical of churches were some of the congregation is embroiled in liturgical dance, some is singing, some is painting pictures, etc. etc.

I will confession that the "unity/uniformity" idea is not original with me. I heard Joey Pipa make that point several years ago and it has always stuck with me, For what it's worth.

That's a bit of a stretch no? How far are we taking uniformity? Dress code? How about assigning people to pews based on height? Should it be tall in the front or in the back?

No, it would be a bit of a stretch to take the analogy too far. It is actions in worship being discussed, not dress or seating order. What takes place in worship should be done to promote the unity of the body of Christ, not facilitate divisions within. And certainly we should not promote the idea that those who lift their hands are more pious than those who not, which is the proverbial elephant in the room in this discussion. I know you are not saying this, but it is a possible concern if such a division takes place within the context of worship.

Then help me understand. Seems as a bit of a false dilemma in that we either all do it or we all do not. There would also be the issue of at which joint do we raise our hands? Do we raise in only bending the elbow or do we raise via the shoulder? In sticking with just the action of raising our hands do we then not also have to discuss palm placement? Do the palms face up, with the back of the hand facing the congregant or do the palms face up with the back of the hand facing away from the congregant? Can the palms be in a parallel position to each other?

If unity of action is the goal then with all these variables it would seem to me that the better option is not to have the hands get involved.

Is this a RPW issue? Not being funny. I'm interested and thanks to PB have realized how out of whack corporate worship has become. This hands issue however seems a bit much but whole regulated worship is as well.

-----Added 8/27/2009 at 02:40:57 EST-----

Nevermind. I see I was talking about uniformity and not unity. My bad.

 

[chbrooking]

Thanks Tim, that clarified a lot. I don't think we are in great disagreement. The only place we might disagree is this -- I don't think it would be appropriate for the church to ask people NOT to raise their hands in worship. I'm all for unity. And I appreciate your distinction. Even uniformity isn't a bad thing -- unless it, itself, is a distraction or a hindrance to worship.

 

[Marrow Man]

Nevermind. I see I was talking about uniformity and not unity. My bad.

No, I am one who was being imprecise in my terminology, and did not mean to cause dissension or misunderstanding. I was trying to convey an idea and was clumsy with my word choice.

 

[Marrow Man]

Thanks Tim, that clarified a lot. I don't think we are in great disagreement. The only place we might disagree is this -- I don't think it would be appropriate for the church to ask people NOT to raise their hands in worship. I'm all for unity. And I appreciate your distinction. Even uniformity isn't a bad thing -- unless it, itself, is a distraction or a hindrance to worship.

If the situation comes up in a church (hopefully a mature church), I think that teaching on these things would be helpful. For example, as you have pointing out, if you do so by showing biblical patterns, etc., you could bring along a congregation into greater unity so that there is not misunderstanding.

I know this will be a shock (!), but Christians can be quite guilty of jumping the gun and misunderstanding things. Someone could come into your service and see an infant baptism and leave thinking you are a crypto-Catholic. You could rail against a premillennial dispensational view of the rapture, and someone could misunderstand and think you are a liberal denying the second coming of Christ. You could emphasize the bodily resurrection to such a degree that someone might think you are denying heaven (or even promoting "soul sleep"). While we should certainly not give quarter to immaturity and sloppy thinking among our members, we should also (and with great patience!) endeavor to instruct them so that they may be brought, by the Holy Spirit and the Word, to a place where there is broad agreement and understanding of these things. Including worship.

 

[Marrow Man]

They should be holding the Psalter.

Better yet, they could have it memorized and then use both hands.

We always end presbytery and Synod meetings with the singing of Psalm 133 (ours is probably slightly different to yours, with a different tune, but based on the Scottish Psalter version). It astounds me that so many godly men have to pick up the psalter to sing it! In our denomination, that one should be like breathing!

 

[Herald]

Perhaps we should rephrase the question. Does scripture prohibit the raising of hands in worship?

 

[Whitefield]

Follow-on issue to this one: Should you tap your feet to the music in worship?

 

[Herald]

Follow-on issue to this one: Should you tap your feet to the music in worship?

If our music had a tune to tap feet to, I would. If I received any stares, I'd stare back. Either that or do the funky chicken. Bob taught me how to do it in a very dignified Reformed manner.

 

[Peairtach]

Lifting hands during a prayer by an individual man while leading prayer is acceptable. See what our Apostle, Paul, says. Also the pastor or elder may at the benediction.

There is nothing in Scripture about collective "wave-offerings" while singing.