Has anyone ever seen this quote from Charles Finney?

[SolaGratia]

Pulpits Are Responsible

by Charles Finney


If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that the very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it.
~ Rev. Charles Finney

From: Pulpits Are Responsible

Is he correct?

better yet

Is he biblically correct?

 

[Jon 316]

I have saw that before. There is a time when I would have thought he was right. But now I am like HECK NO! The mans on drugs!

 

[Marrow Man]

Well, if anyone's responsible for the Pelagian spirit within the modern church, it is the pulpit of Finney.

 

[SolaGratia]

Has anyone ever seen this quote from Charles Finney?

Yes.

Is he correct, brother Josh?

 

[Jon 316]

yep, Finney has done a job on the church. Most humanistic evangelical thinking can be traced back to him... or wesley... hmmm I still like Wesley though...

 

[JBaldwin]

Pulpits Are Responsible

by Charles Finney


If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that the very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it.
~ Rev. Charles Finney

From: Pulpits Are Responsible

Is he correct?

better yet

Is he biblically correct?

No, he is not responsible. I have been pondering something simliar to this all week, because of something my pastor said to me at our Bible study last week. My paraphrase--God often blesses people around us for our sakes.

This got me thinking about what Jesus said in the sermon on the mount. "You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost its savor, wherewith will it be salted?"

God is sovereign. He is the one calls, chooses and ordains what happens. That is a given, so ultimately He is responsible for what happens. However, He did tell us that we are to be salt and light. I think in some respect, we are responsible for how much blessing or lack thereof the world around us has. Here is an example. If a business owner is a believer and is walking close to the Lord and running His business according to biblical principles of financing, his employees, christian or not, will reap the benefits of his good business management. In that way, he is salt and light. Or if a mother raises her children to be good citizens and teaches them to be respectful of others and follow God's word, those children will be blessing wherever they go.

As I think over the life of Abraham, it seems that this was the case. When Abraham called Sarah his sister and let Pharaoh take her into his harem, Pharaoh complained that Abraham was to blame for the plagues on his house.

It is not the preacher's fault if believers don't walk with the Lord.

 

[Neogillist]

No, Finney is attributing too much responsibility to the pulpit (basically to man) than is allowable just as the majority of semi-pelagians do.

Just because people attend church does not necessarily mean that they will listen and apply the teachings that are being proposed. Finney believed that anyone could be convicted of God's Truth from mere human persuasion and that is why he makes those claims.

The pulpit, and more especially the consitory of a local church is only responsible in so far as the outwards administration of the sacrament, the church discipline and doctrine are being faithfully maintained among the members of the church. If a professing member happens to fall in sin, and the consistory properly exercises church discipline, the pulpit cannot be blamed. Now, as for the general public who is not submitted to the authority of the church and are not members of it, the pulpit has no responsibility towards them whatsoever; neither to civil magistrates, or the press or anything that does not lie under the authority of the church.

Finney, just like many modern evangelicals, are confusing the distinction between man's responsibility and God's providence, thinking that if things are not moving it is always due to a lack of spiritual endeavors, or evangelism or preaching in the church.

 

[Marrow Man]

If men do not faithfully handle the word of God (like Finney), or or do not faithfully administer the sacraments, or do not faithfully practice church discipline, then they are responsible.

 

[Jon 316]

Neo...

Preach it man, preach it!

 

[Jimmy the Greek]

Finney is a Pelagian, but his point may be worth making in the right context. The pulpit does have a responsibility to faithfully proclaim the gospel and the whole council of God. That responsibility is being shirked in more pulpits than we might like to think.

 

[SolaScriptura]

On the one hand we should all believe that God uses "secondary causes" and that our actions have both significance and consequence. So on that hand it is permissible to speak of someone being responsible what follows from the abuse or neglect of their office.

On the other hand, Finney was a full-blown Pelagian and so he meant full and complete responsibility for not having properly used means to achieve desired ends.

And so, knowing what Finney meant... of course he's wrong.

 

[PresbyDane]

I had not seen it before, and I do not know that he is completly correct, but I think it is worth having in mind

 

[Mushroom]

As for any part of what Finney having to say being correct, it would be a case of the stopped watch being right twice a day.

 

[Rich Koster]

And if people don't swoon and stampede during the altar call it's the pulpits fault.

 

[Theognome]

Yes.

Is he correct, brother Josh?

No.

How does your position here differ from a statement you made on the Abraham Lincoln's America thread?

No doubt Lincoln set a horrible precedent, but we could just as easily title threads galore like:

Teddy Roosevelt's America
Woodrow Wilson's America
FDR's America
Bill Clinton's America
George W. Bush's America
Barack Hussein Obama's America

And the list could go on and on and on and on. Folks, the Repugnicans are nationalists (they just call it patriotism so folks will participate ignorantly) and the Demoncrats are nationalists. Here, in my opinion, is the saddest and most telling title we could have on a thread:

The American Church's America

So, while I agree that Lincoln abused, etc., I think it applies to many of our presidents, which is indicative of a greater problem source: a Church that is unrepentant, lax, aloof, and lots of times, pawns of the state. These kinds of threads accomplish very little on the PB because we all have our strongest opinions about these things and, many times, talk past one another, to no avail.

Theognome