An Examination of Exclusive Psalmody
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CalvinandHodges
Puritan Board Junior
Hi:
Yes, a new and updated version of The Songs of Zion has been written. My pastor is on the Board that oversees Crown and Covenant Publications, and he showed me an advanced copy of it the other day. I will ask him on Sunday when he expects it to be re-published. It looks good though - quite an expansion from the original.
JD:
I appreciate your input, but are you somewhere going to give an exegesis of your position? I am glad to see that you agree with me on the matter concerning Scripture vs. man's wisdom. I think, then, it would be easy for you to answer this question:
Do the Scriptures treat Preaching (Mt 29:20), Praying (Mt 6:9), and singing (Mt 26:30) in different fashions?
A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.
Blessings,
-CH
Blueridge Believer
Puritan Board Professor
I will be glad to lend my copy fo Songs of Zion to any here at the PB. Just read it promptly and return it.
panta dokimazete
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
lol - I think a simple "yes or no" would oversimplify the issue - in one sense, yes in other senses, no.
Before I answer, though - can you help me with your reference?
Mt 29:20 - I can't find the chapter referenced...I think you may have transposed a number
(trust me when I say - I resonate with that! )
CalvinandHodges
Puritan Board Junior
Hi:
Ooops! Mt 28:20 - thanks for pointing it out
-Rob
Ooops! Mt 28:20 - thanks for pointing it out
-Rob
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Dr. Morey correctly acknowledges the fundamental point of the regulative principle of worship: "that so far as the public worship of God is concerned, whatever is not commanded by Scripture is forbidden."
What is lacking in his article is any justification for including the element of singing in the public worship of God. His denial that the relevant texts are pertinent to public worship practice effectively leaves a church committed to the regulative principle without a warrant for singing "anything," let alone the inspired psalms.
bookslover
Puritan Board Doctor
Our church organist is fantastic! You should hear her play Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven during the offering!
KIDDING!!!
KIDDING!!!
Schwertley is hardline but helpful.
I know Brian. His formal presentation is hardline. He came to the Reformed faith from the charismatic movement after he read Warfield's plan of salvation.
I have found him to be a person who listens to others and trys to understand where they are coming from. He has always been gracious to me when we have discussed issues of morality and faith. Having said that , let me also say that I am well aware that not everyone has had that experience with him.
Brian is someone who never shys from calling sin, sin and error, error. Reading what he has written has taught me a lot, even when I disagree with him. That especially includes his work on exclusive Psalmody.
For the record, I disagree with him on using the Psalms exclusively. I think any passage of scripture may be sung or chanted by the Church. I also believe the Church can sing/chant creedal statements. I think he makes a good case for exclusive Psalmody. I do not find it to be compelling.
Permit me to say a word on behalf of Brian Schwertley.
The funny thing is that according to Schwertley, your denomination is not truly Reformed because they celebrate Christmas and allow musical instruments... Oh, and by the way, some people from my denomination would not consider you to be truly reformed either.
I know Brian. His formal presentation is hardline. He came to the Reformed faith from the charismatic movement after he read Warfield's plan of salvation.
I have found him to be a person who listens to others and trys to understand where they are coming from. He has always been gracious to me when we have discussed issues of morality and faith. Having said that , let me also say that I am well aware that not everyone has had that experience with him.
Brian is someone who never shys from calling sin, sin and error, error. Reading what he has written has taught me a lot, even when I disagree with him. That especially includes his work on exclusive Psalmody.
For the record, I disagree with him on using the Psalms exclusively. I think any passage of scripture may be sung or chanted by the Church. I also believe the Church can sing/chant creedal statements. I think he makes a good case for exclusive Psalmody. I do not find it to be compelling.
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Neogillist
Puritan Board Freshman
John Gill himself did not hold to a strict Exclusive Psalmody, but he did encourage Psalm-singing above hymns because he saw there was a sufficient number of Psalms that God had handed down to us in His Word. He points out however that hymns must be in accordance with the confessions of the church. You should check out this excellent sermon of his:
54. A Discourse On Singing Of Psalms
54. A Discourse On Singing Of Psalms
CalvinandHodges
Puritan Board Junior
Hi:
The Songs of Zion revised and updated will come out sometime in 2009. It may come out sooner or later than that - with winter of 2009 being "later."
-CH
The Songs of Zion revised and updated will come out sometime in 2009. It may come out sooner or later than that - with winter of 2009 being "later."
-CH
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
Are we talking about Luther, Knox and Calvin here? Those, to me, are "early magisterial reformers".
If that is what you're referring to, then I think this is inaccurate. Take, for instance, the inclusion of Sternhold and Hopkins in the Geneva Bible. Clearly compiled by MRs; Knox and Calvin, perhaps, even being part of the project. Note that S&H include the Magnificat, Nunc Dimittis, The Song of the Three Children, Te Deum, the Athanasian Creed, the Suit of a Humble Sinner, Veni Creator, and various other non-EP songs in with the Psalms. S&H, in the Geneva Bible, recommend these songs to be sung in Worship as well as in daily life. In other words, whichever of the MRs that compiled the Geneva Bible was not EP.
Then, we can look at the hymns composed by Luther (which are manifold; some versions of Psalms, some theological in nature), and Calvin's "I greet thee". Certainly, they were not EP.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I think this sweeping claim is a bit inaccurate; but perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by MRs.
Cheers,
Adam
I'm not sure if Luther was intended; but as far as the Geneva and S&H, I'm no expert but Wikipeidia indicates the additional non psalm matter was added by John Day, and that it became customary to "bind" S&H with the Geneva which seems to indicate this was something governed more by the publishers, such as others have proved wrt the Scottish psalters, than anything official. For the Scottish angle see the Shorter Works of David Hay Fleming available at the Naphtali Press store (link in sig).
Metrical psalter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Metrical psalter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
I've addressed the claim that Calvin authored that hymn previously in this post:
Hymn Recommendations
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
This is not a plausible conjecture for several reasons:
1. These men, undertaking a translation and commentary on all of Holy Writ, could have easily put together an EP collection, if that was their belief;
2. If they believed that God's law forbad anything but the Psalms, they would have been sinning to allow a publisher to add "uninspired hymns". These guys were ready to die for the teaching of Scripture; is it really credible to think this one would get past them?
3. In the 1599 Geneva Bible's notes on Col 3:16, they say "By Psalms he meaneth all godly songs, which were written upon divers occasions, and by hymnes, all such as conteine the prayse of God, and by spirituall songs, other more peculiar and artificious songs which were also in prayse of God, but they were made fuller of musicke". Note, no explicit statement of EP, and a tacit denial of the same, since "all such as conteine the praise of God" were to be used, as they show in S&H at the end of said bible.
4. The S&H at the end of Geneva gives explicit instruction about singing these Psalms and non-Psalms "in the Churches", which, again, would have been objectionable to any EPer to have included in his translation of God's Holy Word.
Cheers,
Adam
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
Very interesting.
Is it not true, however, that the Genevan Psalter included Canticles and other non-Psalm pieces of music set down to be sung in the Churches? Same as S&H...
Cheers,
Adam
Re #2 it is most certainly plausible. See the referenced Hay Fleming. Also, ideas on EP were considerably less developed in the 16th century. The Geneva and British practice may have been looser than Scottish; that is outside my investigations which has been limited to the Scottish Reformation and Psalter use (where Printers most certainly did take liberties). Puritanism was set on tightening British practice, and did attempt to do so with the Westminster Directory for Public Worship. See the forthcoming review of Nick Needham's work by Matthew Winzer which I've referenced before. Maybe Matthew has some comment he can make on the British Psalters?
The fact that the Apocrypha was printed with the Bible does not suggest that it was to be read in the church service.
As Louis Benson has observed ['The Development of the English Hymn,' Princeton Theological Review 10 (1912), 47, 48], "It is then obvious that the presence of these hymns in the English Psalter does not of itself imply, either in intention or in fact, their use in the church services. As to the actual significance of their inclusion one must form his own conclusions."
We have to remember, when dealing with a period of reform, that not everything was necessarily done according to an ideal pattern.
Most hymnody scholars agree that uninspired hymns found their way into reformed churches by means of dissatisfaction with the psalms. Benson's conclusion was as follows (ibid, p. 54): "As the result of our examination we are compelled to conclude that in spite of appearances the hymns appended to the English and Scottish Psalters must be regarded as an episode, and one of no great significance, in the history of Psalmody rather than as a link in the continuity of the development of the English Hymn. Their relation to church worship is indeterminate. They did not become the nucleus of a Hymnal. They were hardly even prophetic of the lines on which the Hymn developed; for the demand for hymns grew out of long experience in singing metrical Psalms, and not out of any satisfaction in the use of appended hymns.
As Louis Benson has observed ['The Development of the English Hymn,' Princeton Theological Review 10 (1912), 47, 48], "It is then obvious that the presence of these hymns in the English Psalter does not of itself imply, either in intention or in fact, their use in the church services. As to the actual significance of their inclusion one must form his own conclusions."
We have to remember, when dealing with a period of reform, that not everything was necessarily done according to an ideal pattern.
Most hymnody scholars agree that uninspired hymns found their way into reformed churches by means of dissatisfaction with the psalms. Benson's conclusion was as follows (ibid, p. 54): "As the result of our examination we are compelled to conclude that in spite of appearances the hymns appended to the English and Scottish Psalters must be regarded as an episode, and one of no great significance, in the history of Psalmody rather than as a link in the continuity of the development of the English Hymn. Their relation to church worship is indeterminate. They did not become the nucleus of a Hymnal. They were hardly even prophetic of the lines on which the Hymn developed; for the demand for hymns grew out of long experience in singing metrical Psalms, and not out of any satisfaction in the use of appended hymns.
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
The point I was addressing was the assertion that Calvin wrote a hymn, which is often claimed as proof that Calvin would not be opposed to the singing of uninspired compositions in public worship. Although I do not claim that he was EP, I do believe he believed that only inspired words should be sung, even if they came from other books in the Bible besides the Psalter. The only exception to this that I can think of would be the Apostles Creed, and that was certainly believed by some to be in fact Apostolic (although I am not claiming one way or the other whether Calvin thought this -- it is an area which I need to research further personally). But given what he said in his preface to the 1543 psalter and elsewhere about the desirability of singing to God the words given to us by God, and the lack of proof that he composed a hymn for singing; as well as the well known history of printers adding to the Psalter many things useful to the church but not necessarily intended for singing in public worship, I think the presumption should be that as far as Calvin was concerned only inspired compositions should be sung. This is not the strict EP position, but it is a position that John Murray allowed for in the minority OPC report on psalmody, ie., inspired praise only. And it is far cry from allowing for uninspired hymns. So I think one should not assume (as has been done by many with respect to the authorship of "I Greet Thee Who My Sure Redeemer Art" that it was by Calvin and therefore Calvin approved uninspired hymns) that just because non-Psalms are included in Reformation psalters that this means they were sung in public worship. Granting the historical reality of what was in certain psalters does not lead to the necessary conclusion that non-Psalms were sung in such situations. Which also does not mean that they were EP.
But as for the majority of Puritans, I think the preface to the 1673 Scottish Metrical Psalter or the Bay Psalm Book is worth consulting:
Links and Downloads Manager - Worship - Calvin's Preface to the Genevan Psalter - The PuritanBoard
Links and Downloads Manager - Worship - Luther's Preface to the Psalter - The PuritanBoard
Links and Downloads Manager - Worship - Puritan Preface to the Scottish Metrical Psalter - The PuritanBoard
Links and Downloads Manager - Worship - Preface to the Bay Psalm Book - The PuritanBoard
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Hi:
The Songs of Zion revised and updated will come out sometime in 2009. It may come out sooner or later than that - with winter of 2009 being "later."
-CH
Mike Bushell told me today that Crown & Covenant has had his manuscript for about 9 months and he doesn't know what the hold up is, except for the fact that they don't have a full-time editor.
He says the new edition will be 50% larger than the previous edition and includes new research on the synagogue in the NT and interacts with more recent arguments posed contra exclusive psalmody that have come up since the book was first published nearly 30 years ago.
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
Rev. Wintzer,
Thank you for the information on the Psalters in general. I need to study this issue more closely.
One quick comment on the statement above about the Apocrypha. In the Geneva Bible, as I'm sure you are aware, the preface to the first book tells us what attitude we are to have toward these books: some interesting history, but not inspired by God; we can learn some lessons for our lives. When the Psalter was printed, the instruction was clear that these Psalms, Scripture songs, Creeds and uninspired hymns were specifically injoined to be sung "in the churches". No such thing was said about reading the Apocrypha "in the churches".
Cheers,
Adam
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
Andrew,
Thank you for the information! You are always a wealth of info.
Calvin didn't believe the "Apostles Creed" to be apostolic; he even takes exception to the descendit. Anywho, I took your post to be defending the idea that Calvin was EP; sorry for misunderstanding.
I think the point I was trying to make is that the sober and sound method is to have things sung in the Church that are sound and sober. Scripture, or course, ranks first; then the Catholic Creeds and Symbols (Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian, Chalcedonian); then the ground gets a bit shakey.
I'm with the Geneva Psalter and S&H on this; I think there are very few "solid" uninspired hymns, but I think the overreaction of throwing all of them out is not "sound and sober".
Cheers,
Adam
panta dokimazete
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Hi - sorry I have been so long getting to this - I have had to focus on work and my local congregation (gasp!
) - I think I will pull this into a new thread, at some point.VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
On the point about Calvin's views on the apostolic origin of the Apostles Creed, I think his views were more ambiguous than this. At least William Cunningham takes him to be favorable to the idea that the AC was of apostolic origin.
William Cunningham, Historical Theology, Chap. 3:
John Calvin, Institutes, 2.16.18:
Nope. What article? Did it give sources?
You remember the author or the title of the article?
JohnV
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
No, I don't. I can give very little information that way. Only that it was a Fanny Crosby biography. It briefly noted that her initial Presbyterian background included this practice. She was writing songs at a very early age, and the suggestion was that her early Christian upbringing disposed her therefore to write church songs, in keeping with the practice of her church (which was Presbyterian) whose elders composed songs for each week's service. I'm going more by the impression given than the actual words; I am not able to quote it as I don't have my own copy of the article.
If this was a practice in some churches, then it would be possible that there is a record of it somewhere. I haven't been able to locate anything as yet. It kind of fits in with my studies on the history of music, and I'd be interested in finding that article back. I read it some time ago, and just made a mental note because it was an interesting fact. But now it's become of greater interest, how it fits in with how music was developing in the South at the same time, (e.g., Golden Harp).
Wikipedia does not mention any Presbyterian background, but this would have been PCUSA in any event I'm sure (born 1820). Still, I suspect it was an unusual practice. Must have been some talented elders.
Fanny Crosby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Perhaps this is slightly off-topic but I'm curious. For the churches who are EP and use no musical instruments, how many conversions to Christ do they see? Have any been reported? Do they generally keep their young folks during the 15-25 year age range? How does this compare to Reformed, hymn-singing churches who use musical instruments, even (horrors of horrors) guitars and drums? I've seen one of the latter, a CR church in Canada, which has very effective evangelism but perhaps this is exceptional.
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