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Gil, I believe Brian Schwertley alludes to it in his "A Brief Examination of Exclusive Psalmody."
Gil, I believe Brian Schwertley alludes to it in his "A Brief Examination of Exclusive Psalmody."
I read Brian Schwertley's essay, I am was not particularly convinced. If you have ever listened to sermons by him, you may notice how he sees everything as black and white. I consider it to be a lack of maturity to fall into dogma too quickly, and when one is ready to label virtually all mainline Reformed denominations as "not truly Reformed" I think that somewhat lacks humility. I myself was about to sink into a form of Reformed dogma over many such secondary issues when suddenly I saw a friend of mine whom, having held to all those fine points, became totally apostate and rejected all of Christianity althogether. Then I realized that the Christian faith is about a heart transformation, not about keeping a set of rules and standards handed down to us by John Calvin.
Gil, I believe Brian Schwertley alludes to it in his "A Brief Examination of Exclusive Psalmody."
I read Brian Schwertley's essay, I am was not particularly convinced. If you have ever listened to sermons by him, you may notice how he sees everything as black and white. I consider it to be a lack of maturity to fall into dogma too quickly, and when one is ready to label virtually all mainline Reformed denominations as "not truly Reformed" I think that somewhat lacks humility. I myself was about to sink into a form of Reformed dogma over many such secondary issues when suddenly I saw a friend of mine whom, having held to all those fine points, became totally apostate and rejected all of Christianity althogether. Then I realized that the Christian faith is about a heart transformation, not about keeping a set of rules and standards handed down to us by John Calvin.
So when is it okay to "fall into dogma"? At some point, everything becomes black and white.
Either the mainline denominations are truly reformed or they are not. Both sides are being equally dogmatic.
CT
I read Brian Schwertley's essay, I am was not particularly convinced. If you have ever listened to sermons by him, you may notice how he sees everything as black and white. I consider it to be a lack of maturity to fall into dogma too quickly, and when one is ready to label virtually all mainline Reformed denominations as "not truly Reformed" I think that somewhat lacks humility. I myself was about to sink into a form of Reformed dogma over many such secondary issues when suddenly I saw a friend of mine whom, having held to all those fine points, became totally apostate and rejected all of Christianity althogether. Then I realized that the Christian faith is about a heart transformation, not about keeping a set of rules and standards handed down to us by John Calvin.
So when is it okay to "fall into dogma"? At some point, everything becomes black and white.
Either the mainline denominations are truly reformed or they are not. Both sides are being equally dogmatic.
CT
The funny thing is that according to Schwertley, your denomination is not truly Reformed because they celebrate Christmas and allow musical instruments... Oh, and by the way, some people from my denomination would not consider you to be truly reformed either.
All of the early magisterial Reformers and the vast majority of the Puritans were EP.
1. The more you depart from the Psalms the more you put yourself at risk of
singing heresy or singing the song of an apostate from the faith (maybe
Watts himself).
1. The more you depart from the Psalms the more you put yourself at risk of
singing heresy or singing the song of an apostate from the faith (maybe
Watts himself).
My beloved brother, BB. You know I agree with the Psalms as our ultimate guide to worship, but your statement could just as well be applied to preaching not being aligned with Scripture, right?
For example, the more you are exhorted and taught by pure Scripture, the less likely you are to fall under corrupted teaching, right? So, we should only preach the words of inspired Scripture without any uninspired additions.
In the same way, the more one prays the Scripture alone, the less likely one is to fall under uninspired alignment to the will of God, or to entreat Him for ungodly things. So, we should only pray the words of inspired Scripture without any uninspired additions.
While I certainly admire the desire to worship "purely" and "safely", I am much more passionate about worshipping in spirit and truth.
The truth is, until Christ's return, there will be always be false worship, just as there will always be false teachers. We are exhorted to examine and test and "work out our own salvation" according to the guidance of the Holy Spirit which is always aligned to the Word of God.
Therefore we should not let our worship be less than what Scripture commands, just as we must not allow it to be more. And by that, I mean not allowing the our worship to become a contra-reaction to the excesses and errors of others, thus risking the equal error of falling into dogmatic subscription to the uninspired ideas of Man.
A holy life and holy worship, fully aligned to the will of God is not easily accomplished, nor should it be, lest we have reason to boast. Resting on the path of rigid exclusivism is not the answer, anymore than unbounded inclusivism is.
Blessings!
While I certainly admire the desire to worship "purely" and "safely", I am much more passionate about worshipping in spirit and truth.
The truth is, until Christ's return, there will be always be false worship, just as there will always be false teachers. We are exhorted to examine and test and "work out our own salvation" according to the guidance of the Holy Spirit which is always aligned to the Word of God.
Therefore we should not let our worship be less than what Scripture commands, just as we must not allow it to be more. And by that, I mean not allowing the our worship to become a contra-reaction to the excesses and errors of others, thus risking the equal error of falling into dogmatic subscription to the uninspired ideas of Man.
A holy life and holy worship, fully aligned to the will of God is not easily accomplished, nor should it be, lest we have reason to boast. Resting on the path of rigid exclusivism is not the answer, anymore than unbounded inclusivism is.
Blessings!
Here we go again...
I don't see how we can pit "purity" in worship against worshipping in "Spirit and in truth." The two go together. That worship which is pure is going to be in Spirit and in truth.
The RPW applied to the element of song prescribes the Psalms alone to be sung in worship.
I would say there's no better way to worship in song in Spirit and in truth than to worship singing what the Spirit Himself has written in His Word of Truth.
If God prescribes something to be done in worship, we're to do it. Whether we think His commandments as exclusivistic or inclusivistic (are those even real words? ) really doesn't make a difference.
Like I said dear brother. I don't have all the anwsers.
The argument that songs in worship are to be exclusively propheticinspired does not hold anymore than preaching and praying are exclusively propheticinspired for the NT believer.
The term "prophesying" is applicable for all 3 types of utterances.
The argument that songs in worship are to be exclusively propheticinspired does not hold anymore than preaching and praying are exclusively propheticinspired for the NT believer.
The term "prophesying" is applicable for all 3 types of utterances.
Preaching is not praying and praying is not preaching. Singing is not preaching and preaching is not the same as singing. If all these things were the same, then there would be no need to differentiate between them, we could then just have a worship service with only one element of worship; we could call it prophesying and just leave it up to the pastor to decide whether to pray, preach, or sing that day for the worship service.
We all know what preaching looks like and sounds like, we all know what singing looks like and sounds like, and we all know what prayer looks like and sounds like. They all look and sound different because they are different; they are distinct elements of worship.
Furthermore, God hasn't given us a book of inspired sermons to preach from; He hasn't given us a book of inspired prayers to pray from; but He has given to us an inspired Book of Praise to sing from.
Priesthill was ransacked and so-called treasonable papers were found. Brown was questioned. His stammering disappeared, and he answered every question so solidly and distinctly that Claverhouse asked his base guides if ever they had heard him preach. 'No, no,' they said,' he was never a preacher.' 'Well,' said he, 'if he has never preached, much has he prayed in his time. Go to your prayers,' he shouted, 'for you shall immediately die.' The peasant went to his knees and began to pray, but three times Claverhouse interrupted him, and then completely stopped him as John Brown interceded, asking God to spare a remnant. 'I gave you leave to pray,' he bawled ,'and you have begun to preach.' The Covenanter turned upon his knees, 'Sir,' he said, 'you know neither the nature of preaching nor praying that calls this preaching,' and, looking to God, finished his last prayer.
Where can you get The Songs of Zion? Crown & Covenant say it is out of print.
Where can you get The Songs of Zion? Crown & Covenant say it is out of print.
The argument that songs in worship are to be exclusively propheticinspired does not hold anymore than preaching and praying are exclusively propheticinspired for the NT believer.
The term "prophesying" is applicable for all 3 types of utterances.
JD:
You know, I was going to address this very objection, but time caused me to finish early.
Making an exact equation between singing, prayer, and preaching is too much a blurring of the lines. Would you say, for example, that preaching is exactly like prayer? or singing?
The major problem with such a position is that God has given us a Book of Psalms, and He has commanded us to sing them, 1 Ch 16:8; Ps 105:2.
We are told to preach the Whole Counsel of God, "...Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you," Mt 29:20a.
"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself," Luke 24:27. Is this a command to "sing" the whole Bible?
God has not given us a "Book of Sermons" in the Bible and commanded us to "Preach only these Sermons."
Though Singing and Prayer are more closely related the commands regulating them are different. Again, we are not given a "Book of Prayers" and required to only pray these prayers. Jesus gives us a form of Prayer in the Lord's Prayer, but we are not given a "form of Singing" and told to sing "like this."
Thus, the Scriptures deal with each of these elements of Worship in different fashions.
I, for one, would rather acquiesce to the Wisdom of God rather than the philosophies of man.
16. Let the word of Christ dwell. He would have the doctrine of the gospel be familiarly known by them. Hence we may infer by what spirit those are actuated in the present day, who cruelly 7 interdict the Christian people from making use of it, and furiously vociferate, that no pestilence is more to be dreaded, than that the reading of the Scriptures should be thrown open to the common people. For, unquestionably, Paul here addresses men and women of all ranks; nor would he simply have them take a slight taste merely of the word of Christ, but exhorts that it should dwell in them; that is, that it should have a settled abode, and that largely, that they may make it their aim to advance and increase more and more every day. As, however, the desire of learning is extravagant on the part of many, while they pervert the word of the Lord for their own ambition, or for vain curiosity, or in some way corrupt it, he on this account adds, in all wisdom -- that, being instructed by it, we may be wise as we ought to be.
Farther, he gives a short definition of this wisdom -- that the Colossians teach one another. Teaching is taken here to mean profitable instruction, which tends to edification, as in Romans 7:7 -- He that teacheth, on teaching; also in Timothy -- "All Scripture is profitable for teaching." (2 Timothy 3:16.) This is the true use of Christ's word. As, however, doctrine is sometimes in itself cold, and, as one says, 8 when it is simply shewn what is right, virtue is praised 9 and left to starve, 10 he adds at the same time admonition, which is, as it were, a confirmation of doctrine and incitement to it. Nor does he mean that the word of Christ ought to be of benefit merely to individuals, that they may teach themselves, but he requires mutual teaching and admonition.
Psalms, hymns. He does not restrict the word of Christ to these particular departments, but rather intimates that all our communications should be adapted to edification, that even those which tend to hilarity may have no empty savor. "Leave to unbelievers that foolish delight which they take from ludicrous and frivolous jests and witticisms; 11 and let your communications, not merely those that are grave, but those also that are joyful and exhilarating, contain something profitable. In place of their obscene, or at least barely modest and decent, songs, it becomes you to make use of hymns and songs that sound forth God's praise." Farther, under these three terms he includes all kinds of songs. They are commonly distinguished in this way -- that a psalm is that, in the singing of which some musical instrument besides the tongue is made use of: a hymn is properly a song of praise, whether it be sung simply with the voice or otherwise; while an ode contains not merely praises, but exhortations and other matters. He would have the songs of Christians, however, to be spiritual, not made up of frivolities and worthless trifles. For this has a connection with his argument.
The clause, in grace, Chrysostom explains in different ways. I, however, take it simply, as also afterwards, in Colossians 4:6, where he says, "Let your speech be seasoned with salt, in grace," that is, by way of a dexterity that may be agreeable, and may please the hearers by its profitableness, so that it may be opposed to buffoonery and similar trifles.
Singing in your hearts. This relates to disposition; for as we ought to stir up others, so we ought also to sing from the heart, that there may not be merely an external sound with the mouth. At the same time, we must not understand it as though he would have every one sing inwardly to himself, but he would have both conjoined, provided the heart goes before the tongue.