Am I a jerk for not being willing to help my kids financially with college?

[Honor]

i would say... what is the harm in setting aside a few extra dollars in a college fund now... I mean if they do really well in school and they get full scholarships then you can use that money to buy them a reliable used car. but debt is never a good way to start out... I can say that I have NO student loans... never had, never will... but I also never went to college either. couldn't afford it. wouldn't it be a shame if your kids didn't go because they didn't want debt and couldn't afford it and didn't want to join the military just to get an education. (not saying that there is anything wrong in that but what if your child wanted to be a painter? Or in Fashion design or whatever) do you see what I mean? I mean what if you change your mind and it's too late? can't you save now decide later?

 

[Pergamum]

i would say... what is the harm in setting aside a few extra dollars in a college fund now... I mean if they do really well in school and they get full scholarships then you can use that money to buy them a reliable used car. but debt is never a good way to start out... I can say that I have NO student loans... never had, never will... but I also never went to college either. couldn't afford it. wouldn't it be a shame if your kids didn't go because they didn't want debt and couldn't afford it and didn't want to join the military just to get an education. (not saying that there is anything wrong in that but what if your child wanted to be a painter? Or in Fashion design or whatever) do you see what I mean? I mean what if you change your mind and it's too late? can't you save now decide later?

One comment about just one phrase in your post:

I do think there is something extremely wrong with joining the military "just to get an education" instead of mainly for a sense of duty to country. That is a mercenary, not a patriot. Unless motivated for abstract, "patriotic" or a sense of duty, find money elsewhere.





Also, in general:

I wonder if this lack of helping out your kids in college despite your stable career in the army will affect your kids later when they discuss what to do with their dear old dad when your 80 years old and they wanna put you in a home.

If one is poor, there is no sin in letting your kids go it alone.

Butif one has a stable career and a guarenteed retirement, watching tivo while collecting retirement while your kids work 3 jobs and incur 100,000 in school loans until age 35 is heinous (unless they have repeatedly shown a nature of laziness and are needing a lesson in real life).

One suggestion is proportional contribution: Working out with your kids what is expected of them and what is expected of you. You contribute a certain portion and they help out as they are able. It is all about launching them out with the best beginning that is possible, isn't it?

Few are "self-made men" - climbing any social ladder takes generations of parents helping children. In a cold world and an iffy job market, to deprive your children of resources (if they are studying hard and working hard) at the most critical time for them when you do, in fact, have those resources if not wise.

 

[Honor]

Mr. pergamum... it's late and I have had little sleep so maybe I'm just not on the same train as you.....the gentleman who started the thread said that not me... wait... I'm confused

 

[Mushroom]

Why did you decide to have kids if it was not your intent to do whatever you could to give them the best possible prospects that you are able? If you are unable to help them due to hard providences, then you are not a jerk. But if you don't want to because you want instead to take your ease or buy yourself an RV and see the country, then you are a jerk, and should have decided not to marry and have children. Can you picture Abraham refusing to help Isaac, or Joshua refusing to help any of his twelve sons to get ahead in life, if were within their means to do so?

Sorry brother, but I think this is an asinine question, more characteristic of a selfish pagan than a christian, much less a reformed and covenantal believer, and even more especially of a PCA Teaching Elder! You have more in common with my dead, unbelieving, hell-occupying father after the flesh than the Fathers of the faith in this. He spent his relatively large income on profligate living, drink and whores, while begrudging every penny he paid towards my older brother's education, which is why I refused to ever ask him for any help. He was embarassed by the fact that the children of his colleagues were far more successful than his own, while ignoring the fact that the only teaching they ever got from him was the '4 f's', and zero support in their schooling except that he'd beat the crud out of them if he had to go to a teacher meeting or got called about discipline problems because he didn't want to be bothered. All while his colleagues monitored their kids' progress in school and did what they could to get them into the best schools possible.

So yeah, as an officer in the military with the means to help, you are, officially, a jerk about this. I hope you rethink it. Sorry to be brutally honest, but I think you need it from someone who's been on the receiving end of your attitude. That taught me to be as proactive in helping my children as possible to improve their prospects, to the best of my feeble ability. I may not be able to do all that much, but my kids will know that I've done the best I could. Who the heck else do they have in the world to go to bat for them? God gave them me, for which I pity them, but I read where He tells me that any who does not provide for his own is worse than an infidel, so I am determined to stand up, suck it up, and do whatever I can as He permits me. They deserve at least that. I've survived a lot of hard things in life, but that doesn't mean I'd wish them upon my children. That's nuts.

 

[Jen]

My parents have decided that as they have the means, it is their responsibility to pay for our education until we marry (as my dad put it -- they're not Americans and so don't feel compelled to let go entirely of their children just because they turn 18). We're (that is, my brother and I) expected to go to college and do well there. (My brother, though, got married this past summer, and so is now working full time to support his wife and newborn.)

On the day of my last final of my first semester in seminary, it will be exactly two years since I walked at UCD -- a month and a-half shy of my 21st birthday -- the second person on both sides of the family to graduate from university, and the first of my generation of the family to graduate (which makes sense since I'm the oldest). Having your parents pay for school is a powerful motivator, or, rather, can be. Of course, it does help when everything you want to do requires a post-graduate degree...

That said, though, had my brother been required to (help?) pay for his education, I wonder if things might have turned out differently...

 

[Matthias]

My two cents....

I have always had to fend for myself when it came to things such as education, vehicles, furniture etc etc etc and even though it wasnt always fun at the time, and I may have even resented it a little bit, I think it was for the best. I have been able to make it through some very tough times because of it I believe.

 

[kvanlaan]

Don't worry about that now. How old are your kids? Why would you possibly lock yourself (metaphorically speaking) one way or another into a position that might not be applicable in 20 years? Seriously. Go chill out and have an iced tea.

Why start now? Compounding, my friend. We know we will never be able to afford to send our children to university, but we still put away what we can for them now, because it makes it that much easier on them. They know they will have to fund the bulk of it, but we do want to help where we can, and leaving the money to work for us in savings makes the burden on both parties that much lighter.

Think about this, Ben: Putting a lump sum of $1000 away for a child now, and adding $100 a month will bring you to almost $40K in 15 years, assuming an 8% return. I think that most can afford saving that sort of money. It still won't pay college, but makes a nice dent. If you wait until 5 years before to start saving like that, you will have only $9K+ in hand, because you've missed out on the ten years of compounding interest. No-one will say that 8% sounds reasonable as of Nov, 2008, but 10% average return is actually more likely over the 15 years, which brings you to over $46K. Will you really miss $25 a week?

 

[ericfromcowtown]

No, I don't think you're being a jerk.

I have education accounts for my children, but they are pretty modest. I start each account out at $500 and put in $25 / month. The grandparents kick in a couple hundred dollars a year as well. When you do the math, it might pay for 1 year when they come to go to school.

The rest will be up to them, and that's okay. When they're going to post-secondary they're supposedly steps away from all the responsibilities of adulthood, and being forced to work and budget is part of the process of getting ready for the day when dad won't be there to catch them when they fall. I sometimes think that I learnt more life-long lessons working midnight shifts in a plywood mill to pay my way through school than sitting in a classroom. I wouldn't want to deprive them of that.

 

[Nate]

Putting a lump sum of $1000 away for a child now, and adding $100 a month will bring you to almost $40K in 15 years, assuming an 8% return. I think that most can afford saving that sort of money. It still won't pay college, but makes a nice dent.

I think this type of plan is a great idea. My parents did something similar to this in order to help me and any of my siblings that needed assistance with college/cars/home loans or anything else that was necessary.

One thing that I am a little confused about while reading through this thread is that most posters seem to think that a quality education equals hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. There are literally hundreds of colleges/universities in the US alone where a great education can be had for less than than the $40K alluded to in the above quote. An undergraduate degree from these types of institutions will not hinder your acceptance into the job market or into the prestigious graduate schools around the country.

 

[kvanlaan]

Sorry, what I was alluding to with the $40K not paying for college is that we have so many that $40K won't make a huge dent in our case. But you're right, for forty thousand dollars, you can often get a full eduction. If you only have only one child, it shouldn't be that easy to get them through, or at least to help.

I do agree with the premise that giving it all to them may not be the way to go. I worked after school (during highschool) and all holidays I was home (in university) at a metal-stamping factory to help pay for my education. It is character building and good for the child in question.

 

[Nate]

Sorry, what I was alluding to with the $40K not paying for college is that we have so many that $40K won't make a huge dent in our case. But you're right, for forty thousand dollars, you can often get a full eduction. If you only have only one child, it shouldn't be that easy to get them through, or at least to help.

My fault, I misread your initial post. I agree that working a part-time during high school and even through college to help defray costs is a wise idea. I've been acquainted with too many students that have no responsibilities other than school who have way too much time on their hands and are worse off for it.

 

[CatechumenPatrick]

Of course, you didn't do it yourself--God blessed you with the appropriate means to not require help from your parents. He could have equally done otherwise, and made your life such that financial assistance from your parents would be the only way you could have afforded college. And of course #2, by any estimate it is only getting harder to pay for college and harder to make money. Jerk? Probably not. Arrogant? Maybe.
Here are better questions: Is there anything wrong with parents who do want to help their children in college? Do you take your position in your family as normative for all, or all relevantly similar families? What do you think about students today, say, Reformed students, whose parents to pay for their college?

 

[he beholds]

OK, I voted jerk, in case your trying to figure out who the four haters are, but I don't think that exactly. I don't think being unable to pay for your kids college is a jerk move (unless you could have been able but was selfish all along), but I do think being able but unwilling is pretty jerky. To me it doesn't seem worth the lesson, if that is truly your intentions. You will have your kids for 18 years before it's time for college, do you suppose you could manage to get that lesson in BEFORE they actually need it? I guess I'm not a fan of learning by fire, unless that is fire sent from the LORD. (And still not a fan, but I trust him to always do what's right, but trusting finite beings like myself, not so much...)

I would think something reasonable would be to take advantage of the starbucks, UPSes, and IKEAs of the world and work while in school at a place that pays part of tuition, plus use scholarships, but also have help from parents with the rest. Why couldn't you and your children both work toward this if possible?

For full disclosure: My husband and I live on his income alone. He's a public school teacher. You do the math. We probably will not be able to afford to pay for our kids' educations. One of our thoughts is if my husband can get his doctorate and teach at a college, preferably a Christian one, they'll be able to go for free/reduced, so that idea is always on the back burner. But that is something my husband would like to do anyway, so that wouldn't be a huge sacrifice in the end. We plan on me homeschooling my children (we have two now, but hope to have as many more as God will allow--or well, we'll see...)
so we can never count on me having an income. (I was a school teacher as well, but I taught for one year at a Xian school making $16,000 that year WHILE my husband was in grad school, and working at IKEA which paid $5,000/year for school, so we've never been a dual income family.) So it is a definite possibility that we will not be able to help much for our kids' education. Even at this, I feel jerky. But we aren't even on track to ever be able to buy a house. If we can better budget and prioritize, (especially being encouraged by Brad's response speaking of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac) then we will help our kids. Not because they deserve it, but because they need it.


My husband and I both went to Geneva College. When I graduated, it was around $22,000/year. My husband graduated debt free, for his parents paid for everything that scholarships didn't cover. I graduated 20K in debt, for my dad paid for almost everything that scholarships didn't cover. My husband's parents sent three kids to college, two chose private schools. His parents are very frugal and thus they are able to be very generous. They would help us in anyway we would need. His dad was a steel worker ages ago and then did other factory-type jobs and his mom taught in a Xian school. They never made boatloads of money,(after 23 years at the same school, my mother-in-law makes like $20,000/yr...Xain schools...another thread necessary!) Anyway, through self discipline, they've saved enough to care for three children while growing up, send them to college, and continue in that generosity today. My in-laws are the most loving and selfless people that I know, and I think THAT is a lesson much more important than one of self-sufficiency. Come on...which of us is self-sufficient?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Yes you're a jerk. What does paying for college have to do with that question?

I appreciate my father paying for my college room and board. I had an ROTC scholarship for 3 years.

I wouldn't dare to presume telling anybody else if they should pay for their child's college education.

As for me, I'm increasingly convinced that if I pay for my kids' college then it will be for a State school.

 

[matt01]

My parents were unable to assist with my college expenses, but thankfully Uncle Sam was there, and more than willing to fund part of it. I am at least 16 years from having to worry about this decision (unless they are really smart, in which case we won't need to worry about it), but would like to be able to help my daughters in some way if possible.

 

[JBaldwin]

Western society on the whole has swallowed the lie that everyone should go to college. We've also swallowed the lie (as has been said) that college has to cost over $100,000. We've also swallowed the idea that all parents should provide a college education for their children.

I believe every parent should do everything they can to help their children get a good education for the best price, and in the best time frame possible, but that doesn't mean they should plan to fork out thousands of dollars for an expensive college. Trends in education have changed drastically since some of us went to college.

In most places in the US, good students can take classes at community colleges for credit (transferred to their college record when they graduate from high school) while they are still in high school. This is much cheaper in many cases.

There is also the option of attending a community college for two years with the intention of transferring credits into a larger school for the last two years.

The high tuition bubble is going to burst before too long, and many universities are either going to under or they will have to downsize drastically. States colleges and universities are struggling financially. It won't be long, in my opinion, that higher education is going to look completely different in 10 years.

Personally, I wouldn't just hand over money to my children for college, even if I could afford it. If I could afford it, I wouldn't pay for everything. Perhaps pay the tuition, but require them to work to pay for books, clothes, etc. By the time a child is 18 years old and ready for school, they should also be ready to handle the responsibilities of adulthood. in my opinion, that means handling at least some, if not all of the financial load.

I knew early on when I was in high school that I would not have money for college, so I worked to get good grades, got a job and had saved up a good amount of money for my tuition. I didn't choose my education based on the school, but on what I could afford. I am thankful my parents were there to support me, and I am also glad they didn't give me a free ride.

 

[Kim G]

I wouldn't say you're a jerk for deciding not to pay. That's your decision (along with the Lord, of course.) But it sounds "jerk-like" to say that you're "unwilling" to help them. Even though I'm married, I am grateful to know that my parents are always willing to help my hubby and me if our car stops working and our apartment burns down on the same day.

My parents paid for my entire college career, and I am very grateful. Because I didn't have to worry about finances, I maintained straight A's in my classes and graduated debt-free. I was also able to work in summer ministries because I didn't have to raise money for school. I counseled at a Christian camp for 11 weeks one summer and went to South Korea for two months another summer. I also had free time (and personal money) to spend on others. I contributed to 8 people's ability to buy plane tickets to the mission field for the summer, tutored friends through their English, history, Bible, and foreign language classes, etc.

Because I grew up with money, I learned early that it's better to give to others than to spend time and money on myself. Now that I'm married, working full-time, and paying for my husband to go to school (he graduates next month!), I don't have the luxury of doing much financially for other people, and I miss it. But I am grateful for the Lord's providence for us.

 

[BobVigneault]

I'm still waiting for the spin off poll..... is Ben a jerk in general. I'm proud of my own jerkness and would love to elevate anyone (men only) to jerk status.



Jerk. a contemptibly naive, fatuous, foolish, or inconsequential person.

Hey, who are you calling fatuous???

 

[Blue Tick]

Proverbs 13:22

A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the sinner's wealth is laid up for the righteous.

 

[SolaScriptura]

As for me, I'm increasingly convinced that if I pay for my kids' college then it will be for a State school.

Care to explain why a State school?

 

[nicnap]

I'm still waiting for the spin off poll..... is Ben a jerk in general. I'm proud of my own jerkness and would love to elevate anyone (men only) to jerk status.



Jerk. a contemptibly naive, fatuous, foolish, or inconsequential person.

Hey, who are you calling fatuous???

 

[Semper Fidelis]

As for me, I'm increasingly convinced that if I pay for my kids' college then it will be for a State school.

Care to explain why a State school?

Cost. I had this strange idea when I was young that people were going to really care what institution you graduated from and that, if I didn't get into the "right school", I would be held back in life.

I've learned that where a person went to college is an interesting topic of conversation but that you can pay about 4-10 times more for the same education and you're in the same place starting out professionally. I went to school at RPI but my education would have been just as good at Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, UT, UM, Penn State, and a host of other schools that I would have paid far less to attend (if I had paid for it).

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Oh, and at my graduation at RPI, was a woman who had spent the first two years of her college at the local community college and then transferred in her Junior year into RPI in the Nuclear Engineering program. She saved herself $thousands in the late 80's that would translate to tens of $thousands today just for getting her base courses completed in community college before transferring to a University. My wife did the same thing with a Psychology degree.

 

[SolaScriptura]

To all you bleeding hearts who think that I'm sitting here spending my money on me while my wife and four children are wearing rags and only getting the bare minimum: Gimme a break.

I have a good job that enables us to have a good lifestyle. My wife homeschools and we spare no expense in regards to our homeschooling operation. There is no penny pinching. Whatever my wife wants - she does the teaching - she gets. Period. In addition, we pay for Scouts (for the boy), ballet (for the girl), piano lessons (for both), sports for both, and we're about to start up horse riding lessons. All because we want our children to be well rounded. We teach generosity and helping the poor.

And it isn't like we have no designs to help them at all in life. We just have a pretty sound conviction, based upon the experiences of many, that our kids will appreciate their college education more if they earn it.

How'd I do it?

Well, I was a lazy student in high school. I hated school. So, being a true knucklehead, when I enlisted in the army I didn't do the GI Bill - I took a puny cash bonus that I wasted. So when I got out (I was married then) my wife and I worked jobs while I took courses at a community college. Then I transferred to Moody Bible Institute which is just about the perfect way to get an education on the cheap: no tuition, only student fees. It cost about $600 per semester for BOTH my wife and me to take a full-load. Once our first born came along my wife quit her job and I worked full-time on top of school. Full-time on top of part-time ministry on top of school. Prior to attending seminary I cashed out my 401(k) to pay off her student loan balance from years before when she attended Northwestern College in Orange City, IA, for a couple years (before we got married). I went to Southern for seminary, my wife worked part time at UPS for our health benefits and I worked part-time as a security guard (more for the study time than anything) and I did the chaplain candidate program. The candidate program actually gave us the bulk of our living money. When I graduated seminary and was ordained - after 9 years of non-stop schooling - we had no student debt and only about $1500 of consumer debt. That was it. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

[Mushroom]

Yeah. My Dad claimed the same. He did it himself, why can't his kids? Through the GI bill. Of course he forgot to mention that the Mason's paid a good bit towards his education as well, that my Mom did most of his homework for him (he was no sharp tack), that my Granddad got him work and helped with their rent, that his older brother put him up for the first year, so on and etc., and also the little fact that he was the only one of ten kids in his family (6 sons) to ever get a college education. He died the proud father of 4 non-college educated children. As he experienced some level of repentance towards the end of his life he said many times that the biggest regret he had was not helping his children get educations. We heard a lot of speeches about how a college education was not all that important, which maybe you won't do, but if one is important, what are you saying to your kids about it by refusing to help with it?

I'm no bleeding heart by any stretch of the imagination, brother, but I read the scriptures that teach me that to not try to leave my children the best heritage I can is covenantal unfaithfulness. Its not a product of a bleeding heart to stand up and strive for better lives for your children. It is what christians do when they 'quit themselves like men'.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Brad, brother, you sound like a bitter man.

 

[Mushroom]

Brad, brother, you sound like a bitter man.

If so, then your prayers would be welcome, brother. I in turn will pray that God will guide you in the wisest course when it comes to the education of your children.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I appreciate that.

We intend to do "nice" things for our kids. For example, we have a fund set up so that we can give them a wedding present to the tune of 10k. And since we want to reward success my wife has asked me to consider a plan to perhaps have them pay the cost of their schooling and at the end of the term if they maintained a certain GPA then we'd reimburse a certain percentage. We're not trying to be heartless. We just want our kids to learn to appreciate hard work.

 

[Theogenes]

Ben,
No, you're not a jerk. We paid a bundle to send our three sons to a Christian school until they graduated (we tried homeschooling for a few years) and we told our sons that if they wanted to go to college they would have to figure it out. We've offered to let tham stay at home for free if they go to a local college or do online classes. That's how we may help them. I had to pay my own way and I think one learns to appreciate it more. I know of parents who have and are paying for everything and their children don't appreciate anything...they are SPOILED!
And, so far, its working out. My oldest works for a company that is paying his tuition, my second joined the Marines so he'll get the GI bill, etc. and my third is still a senior.
My worth. (that's all I can afford)
Jim

 

[christiana]

Well, did you buy your kids cars or did they work and earn the $ and buy the car theirself?

Its all a effort to instill self reliance, independence and hard work and to not expect handouts when they are in need, right? How to get there is achieved by different people in different ways it seems.