bookslover
Puritan Board Doctor
I visited Village Seven PCA in Colorado Springs many years ago, and they had little velvet bags with two wooden handles to pass for the collection.
Yup. That's exactly what we've got.
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I visited Village Seven PCA in Colorado Springs many years ago, and they had little velvet bags with two wooden handles to pass for the collection.
Thanks for sharing and I hope you continue to weigh in on Threads. However, this thread really has nothing to do with The OT Tithe still being binding or not (I hold it is not binding, other than the general equity from that law). No one on this thread has expressed ANY form of legalism as of yet. See Post # 15, for my reasoning for using the vocabulary word “tithe”, which was NOT in an OT binding manner.I think I might be the only woman on this site.. and so feel free to take my sex into account. but it is my understanding that the tithe is an Old Testament law because the Temple was also the seat of "secular" government so it was like "paying taxes" as well as a spiritual offering..in the NT it is never taught, instead we are told to be "Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." There seems a lot of legalism in this thread.
My pastor also describes the collection as a part of our worship and I think it is.. but if we give out of a feeling of an "obligation " is it worship or "work"? I think most of us use 10% because it is a comfortable tradition and we take seriously the need to support our church and pastor .. My advise is if you are having a spiritual problem on the weeks you do not "tithe "put a dollar in the plate... but to feel bound by OT law is not worship it could almost feel like a requirement or law
Grant Jones, R. Scott Clark has written on that topic:
Is the Offering an Element, a Circumstance, or Neither?
It's a little more complex than that, but you are on the right track. If you want a fuller answer, you can check out my little ebook on the subject of tithing here:I think I might be the only woman on this site.. and so feel free to take my sex into account. but it is my understanding that the tithe is an Old Testament law because the Temple was also the seat of "secular" government so it was like "paying taxes" as well as a spiritual offering..in the NT it is never taught, instead we are told to be "Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." There seems a lot of legalism in this thread.
My pastor also describes the collection as a part of our worship and I think it is.. but if we give out of a feeling of an "obligation " is it worship or "work"? I think most of us use 10% because it is a comfortable tradition and we take seriously the need to support our church and pastor .. My advise is if you are having a spiritual problem on the weeks you do not "tithe "put a dollar in the plate... but to feel bound by OT law is not worship it could almost feel like a requirement or law
We receive it during the worship service, as an element of worship. But I understand and am sympathetic with those who think we should have a box at the back and remove it from the worship service altogether, on the basis of the lack of clear biblical warrant for it as an element of worship. Clearly some gifts were offered at the temple in some kind of receptacle, though others, such as sacrificial animals, would have be hard to fit on a plate or in a box. It was an act of worship, I think, at least in many cases. In the NT, apart from the fact that the offering was gathered weekly by the church (1 Cor 16 can't mean they set it aside personally, otherwise it would have to have been collected when Paul came, which is what this practice is intended to avoid), there is little detail on how precisely this was to be done.@iainduguid
How is money collected in your congregation? Is giving/collection viewed as an element in the ARP?
. . .on the basis of the lack of clear biblical warrant for it as an element of worship.
The problem if that if the collection is an element of worship, and someone refuses to give at during the time of worship are they subject to discipline? Now note when I say discipline I say it with admonition in mind, and not excommunication.
Earl, this was basically my line of reasoning in the OP.The problem if that if the collection is an element of worship, and someone refuses to give at during the time of worship are they subject to discipline? Now note when I say discipline I say it with admonition in mind, and not excommunication.
I am one of two deacons in my congregation so I see what people give, if it is check, not cash. As has been mentioned, this is sort of 'uncomfortable' in a way. That aside, my fellow deacon was very concerned because, to put it in his words, "Some people are not tithing."The problem if that if the collection is an element of worship, and someone refuses to give at during the time of worship are they subject to discipline? Now note when I say discipline I say it with admonition in mind, and not excommunication.
The simple answer is no. If someone refuses to give at all, that would be worthy of pastoral exploration certainly. But if they didn't give one week because they had given a double amount the previous time, there is nothing to admonish. And if they didn't give because their conscience was in favor of giving outside the worship service, it would be like an EP person who respectfully declined to sing hymns (we've had that situation in our church, and had no qualms about it). They are not absenting themselves from worship, merely honoring their conscience, something we should encourage not rebuke.The problem if that if the collection is an element of worship, and someone refuses to give at during the time of worship are they subject to discipline? Now note when I say discipline I say it with admonition in mind, and not excommunication.
For those whose churches have a collection during service, do they have way to keep it part of the rest of the lithurgy?
I feel like at mine, it ends up being sort of an announcement time while plates are being passed. Otherwise, I guess it would be an ackward couple minutes of silence. But it does not seem to fit with the rest of service to me.
the only thing it affords is an occasion for some brief mood mus... I mean an offertory.
If you don't give until you get paid, that means that you are withholding half the money for a week. In that case, you should gross up your giving the second week to make up the time value of the money that you did not timely give to the church.
Now, in the current US economy, that would be minuscule, but in times of high interest rates (like the Ford - Carter economy) or if the economy hit a period of hyperinflation (Venezuela, Wiemar Germany, Mugabe's Rhodesia, etc), the adjustments might be significant.
A shame, no time for any ballet...
The simple answer is no. If someone refuses to give at all, that would be worthy of pastoral exploration certainly. But if they didn't give one week because they had given a double amount the previous time, there is nothing to admonish. And if they didn't give because their conscience was in favor of giving outside the worship service, it would be like an EP person who respectfully declined to sing hymns (we've had that situation in our church, and had no qualms about it). They are not absenting themselves from worship, merely honoring their conscience, something we should encourage not rebuke.
More broadly, just because something is an element of worship doesn't mean that everyone has to do it every time we gather. Baptism and oaths are elements of worship but only occasionally included, as needed.
The initial poster referenced his tithe as did a few other..
That’s what we use. At first I was afraid it was somewhat papist but it’s worked well for us. /sarcI visited Village Seven PCA in Colorado Springs many years ago, and they had little velvet bags with two wooden handles to pass for the collection.
That’s what we use. At first I was afraid it was somewhat papist but it’s worked well for us.
I guess the Scotch would be too cheap to use velvet.When I saw it, I thought it might be a Dutch thing.
That is the most appealing thing about the stick baskets for me as a Deacon! I wonder if they make one with a small taser on the end.... something reasonable like 12volts.Yea, and the sticks can be used to prod the drowsy.