Where is Jesus?
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Larry Hughes
Puritan Board Sophomore
Marcos,
Ironically, though few investigate it, you've hit upon the key element as to Luther's "with, in & under" of the real presence of Christ at the Lord's Supper which is not the same as transsub. nor relies on aristotolian categories. Luther asks & begins addressing this very question.
I ran across this by accident a bit back. Still processing it as time allows. It has alot to do with the differing view of a kingdom "above", geography which is more or less gnostic, versus the kingdom coming (which we pray in the Lord's prayer).
Don't mean to open a new debate, but your the first I've seen ask that question since I myself started studying it... it caught my eye.
grace & peace,
Ldh
Ironically, though few investigate it, you've hit upon the key element as to Luther's "with, in & under" of the real presence of Christ at the Lord's Supper which is not the same as transsub. nor relies on aristotolian categories. Luther asks & begins addressing this very question.
I ran across this by accident a bit back. Still processing it as time allows. It has alot to do with the differing view of a kingdom "above", geography which is more or less gnostic, versus the kingdom coming (which we pray in the Lord's prayer).
Don't mean to open a new debate, but your the first I've seen ask that question since I myself started studying it... it caught my eye.
grace & peace,
Ldh
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
...Officially, he is at the right hand of the throne of God...
knight4christ8
Puritan Board Freshman
". . . UNTIL his enemies are made his footstool."
A postmil can't pass up a chance like that.
This is an interesting Q that I have thought of. Christ did take on a finite body and a finite soul, and still exists with a material body. Where? . . . I think this is one of those mysteries of which we cannot reason, nor does Scripture tell us.
just_grace
Puritan Board Freshman
He is where we cannot go nor could the Apostles follow.
Its mad. lol!
It's Truth, even madder lol.
Heavely Father help us. Amen.
One of my favourite verses is, I know where I have come from and where I am going.
Bless you Jesus.
David
Its mad. lol!
It's Truth, even madder lol.
Heavely Father help us. Amen.
One of my favourite verses is, I know where I have come from and where I am going.
Bless you Jesus.
David
C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
Heaven is where God manifests Himself most in an immediate fashion.
The Bible says heaven is "up." My thinking, heaven is interdimentionally existent everywhere. Stephen saw Jesus standing in heaven while inside a building with the Pharisees. John saw heaven outside on Patmos. Peter James and John caught a glimpse of heavenly manifestation on the mount during the transfiguration. John saw the Spirit descend from heaven by the Jordan, Ezekiel was by the river Chebar, and Isaiah was in exile. Etc.
Christ, though, is materially in heaven. He can only be in one place at one time. His body, though glorified, is confined to a finite space. The saints now, though disembodied, are looking at the fullness of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
If you look at Daniel 7:13-14, you find the coming of the Messiah into heaven right after the ascension, "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed." I think this vision is what happened after Jesus ascended. In other words, God gave Daniel a vision of the Son of man ascending into heaven and entering into the courts of God's throne room as it is recorded in Acts 1.
The Son, on the other hand, as God, is omnipresent. He's everywhere all the time. but you have to make a distinction between the two.
The Bible says heaven is "up." My thinking, heaven is interdimentionally existent everywhere. Stephen saw Jesus standing in heaven while inside a building with the Pharisees. John saw heaven outside on Patmos. Peter James and John caught a glimpse of heavenly manifestation on the mount during the transfiguration. John saw the Spirit descend from heaven by the Jordan, Ezekiel was by the river Chebar, and Isaiah was in exile. Etc.
Christ, though, is materially in heaven. He can only be in one place at one time. His body, though glorified, is confined to a finite space. The saints now, though disembodied, are looking at the fullness of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
If you look at Daniel 7:13-14, you find the coming of the Messiah into heaven right after the ascension, "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed." I think this vision is what happened after Jesus ascended. In other words, God gave Daniel a vision of the Son of man ascending into heaven and entering into the courts of God's throne room as it is recorded in Acts 1.
The Son, on the other hand, as God, is omnipresent. He's everywhere all the time. but you have to make a distinction between the two.
You'll have to forgive my simplistic aproach to the question but it seems as though the answer is easier than all the esoteric speculation that has been given.
Heaven is an actual place. The apostle John goes into great detail explaining its dimensions and some of what it is constructed of, or appears to be constructed of. It is apparent that heaven has at least the qualities of depth, width and height. If that is the case, I see no reason why Jesus could not exist there right now.
Now where heaven is proposes an entirely different question. The most reasonably answer would be that heaven exists in another dimension. But is this a created dimension, or a dimension where God has eternally existed?
Heaven is an actual place. The apostle John goes into great detail explaining its dimensions and some of what it is constructed of, or appears to be constructed of. It is apparent that heaven has at least the qualities of depth, width and height. If that is the case, I see no reason why Jesus could not exist there right now.
Now where heaven is proposes an entirely different question. The most reasonably answer would be that heaven exists in another dimension. But is this a created dimension, or a dimension where God has eternally existed?
This dimention then would have to be a physical, tangible place, since Christ's body is"materially" there and nowhere else. So Heaven is a place that is actually *somewhere*, not a *state* of soulish existence? Correct? Does this mean that there could be an actual *Throne room* and Jesus is actually using the muscles in His legs to stand beside a throne in it?
C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
Absolutely to both.
Rich Barcellos
Puritan Board Freshman
Since our Lord Jesus rose in space and time on the earth and ascended in the same body, then His body takes up space and experiences the passing of time in its ascended place. Where is that physically? Deut. 29:29. 
weinhold
Puritan Board Freshman
A few questions and a book suggestion:
1) Where is the right hand of the Father? Can the Father have a right hand if he is spirit?
2) Since Christ remains corporeal after the ascension, did he make a special trip to visit Paul on the Damascus road? Was He not at the right hand of the Father during this trip?
3) What did Jesus mean when he said to Mary Magdalene, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father."
4) What do we make of the mysterious appearances during the 40 days between the resurrection and the ascension? Was Jesus corporeal then like He is now?
5) How can our Old Testaments help us interpret the imagery used in the ascension narratives?
For a helpful discourse on the ascension, I recommend Douglas Farrow, Ascension and Ecclesia: On the Significance of the Doctrine of the Ascension for Ecclesiology and Christian Cosmology. He includes a chapter entitled, "Where is Jesus?" that readers of this board may find helpful.
1) Where is the right hand of the Father? Can the Father have a right hand if he is spirit?
2) Since Christ remains corporeal after the ascension, did he make a special trip to visit Paul on the Damascus road? Was He not at the right hand of the Father during this trip?
3) What did Jesus mean when he said to Mary Magdalene, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father."
4) What do we make of the mysterious appearances during the 40 days between the resurrection and the ascension? Was Jesus corporeal then like He is now?
5) How can our Old Testaments help us interpret the imagery used in the ascension narratives?
For a helpful discourse on the ascension, I recommend Douglas Farrow, Ascension and Ecclesia: On the Significance of the Doctrine of the Ascension for Ecclesiology and Christian Cosmology. He includes a chapter entitled, "Where is Jesus?" that readers of this board may find helpful.
Is it not true to say "heaven" is this planet earth when Christ comes again? What I mean is when God restores this world and we are raised from the dead, won't it be on Earth with the glorified Christ? Won't we (believers) have glorified, perfect, bodies as our Savior for ever?
Is there two different heavens? Abraham's bosom is our spirit's heaven as it were? And the "final" heaven will be when all is made right and sin is gone forever?
Simply put: Our spirits upon death go to be with the Lord and/or Abraham's bosom ("heaven") and when Christ returns this world will be Heaven in the flesh, so to speak.
At the end of all time, aren't we to presume Christ and all the glorified saints will be on this (restored) planet or do I err?
Is there two different heavens? Abraham's bosom is our spirit's heaven as it were? And the "final" heaven will be when all is made right and sin is gone forever?
Simply put: Our spirits upon death go to be with the Lord and/or Abraham's bosom ("heaven") and when Christ returns this world will be Heaven in the flesh, so to speak.
At the end of all time, aren't we to presume Christ and all the glorified saints will be on this (restored) planet or do I err?
mgeoffriau
Puritan Board Freshman
Perhaps this is incorrect, but I always understood the new Earth to be distinct from the current Earth.
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