What of that Elusive "Thorn in the Flesh?"

[Puritanhead]

What of that Elusive \"Thorn in the Flesh?\"

In 2 Corinthians 12:1-10, which the Apostle Paul makes reference to his thorn in the flesh--

Why is it that so many scholars think that the thorn in his flesh is his eyes (i.e. poor eyesight)?

What is the substantive evidence for this induction? Could it not have some deeper spiritual dimension in light of references to visions and revelations of the Lord? Or does references to infirmities provide the much simpler answer like that generally assumed? Any thoughts?

Anybody have any substantive thoughts or comments. Are their any accomplished Puritan and Reformed theologians that go off the beaten path in their explanation of the Apostle's thorn in the flesh?

Your responses are appreciated.

A fellow sojourner and learner,
Ryan

 

[andreas]

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/thorn.html

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

I think some would connect Paul's thorn in the flesh with the apparent eye problem he had noted in Galatians 4.15.

I don't think we can know with certainty that this is what is meant, but as he also refers to infirmities in 2 Cor. 12.9, it seems like a reasonable interpretation.

Matthew Henry:

We are much in the dark what this was, whether some great trouble or some great temptation. Some think it was an acute bodily pain or sickness; others think it was the indignities done him by the false apostles, and the opposition he met with from them, particularly on the account of his speech, which was contemptible.

The important thing of course is that this temptation drove Paul to Christ as should our temptations lead us to call upon the Lord in our distress.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

I am partial to John MacArthur's interpretation--that the thorn was having churches he planted beset with sin-wrought problems and strife even to the point of occasionally turning their backs on their spiritual father, Paul. But it was the means whereby God caused a tremendous amount of the New Testament to be written, and the church immeasurably blessed thereby. God's overruling sin. God's "foolishness" at work. But you would have to read his commentary or listen to his sermons to get the full flavor of this interpretation. I'm not sure how often it has been advanced in church history, but JM presents it very well.

 

[Puritanhead]

Originally posted by Contra_Mundum
I am partial to John MacArthur's interpretation--that the thorn was having churches he planted beset with sin-wrought problems and strife even to the point of occasionally turning their backs on their spiritual father, Paul. But it was the means whereby God caused a tremendous amount of the New Testament to be written, and the church immeasurably blessed thereby. God's overruling sin. God's "foolishness" at work. But you would have to read his commentary or listen to his sermons to get the full flavor of this interpretation. I'm not sure how often it has been advanced in church history, but JM presents it very well.

Whoa Pastor Buchanan... That is an interesting perspective and insight. I confess that I cannot say I've heard it before though I have read MacArthur quite a bit... I will have to follow up on it and read someone's MacArthur commentary on the subject. I guess I could see how one could be lead to that interpretation... "Oh foolish Galatians!"

Thanks.

 

[Puritanhead]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I think some would connect Paul's thorn in the flesh with the apparent eye problem he had noted in Galatians 4.15.

I don't think we can know with certainty that this is what is meant, but as he also refers to infirmities in 2 Cor. 12.9, it seems like a reasonable interpretation.

Matthew Henry:

We are much in the dark what this was, whether some great trouble or some great temptation. Some think it was an acute bodily pain or sickness; others think it was the indignities done him by the false apostles, and the opposition he met with from them, particularly on the account of his speech, which was contemptible.

The important thing of course is that this temptation drove Paul to Christ as should our temptations lead us to call upon the Lord in our distress.

Thanks Andrew.

 

[Puritanhead]

Originally posted by andreas
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/thorn.html

I've seen this before, but thanks.

 

[just_grace]

...

We can but speculate, some think it was malaria.

 

[Larry Hughes]

Andrew,

You nailed it. The detail is unecessary. As Luther would point out all temptation, trial & cross serve the same - drive to Christ - whatever it may be. For under suffering the one suffering is made to realize his/her true need and hence true prayer, true cross, true faith, true God & true humanity. Suffering, whatever it has been given to each - including final pain of death that ALL without exception will experience - takes theology from the realm of academic & unto the inward self. Suffering itself is not blessing (theology of glory), but theology of cross proclaims the God who declares that through death and misery comes life and grace. ToC, suffering, offers Good News, that is NEWS, not solutions.

Ldh

 

[Herald]

Paul\'s thorn in the flesh

2 Corinthians 12:7-9 7 And because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me-- to keep me from exalting myself! 8 Concerning this I entreated the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Debated but never a conclusive opinion. What was the "thorn in the flesh" that kept Paul humble? Was it actually a physical malady such as poor eyesight? The truth is, no one know. But in keeping with the great tradition of speculation on Paul's affliction, I also have a hypothesis.

Acts 9:1-2 Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, 2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

Galatians 1:13 For you have heard of my former manner of life in Judaism, how I used to persecute the church of God beyond measure, and tried to destroy it;

1 Corinthians 15:9 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

I have imagined being in Paul's shoes. Paul persecuted the church of God (Gal. 1:13; 1 Cor. 15:9). He was responsible (either directly or indirectly) for the death of those belonging to the Way (Acts 9:1-2). Could you imagine the overwhelming feeling of guilt and remorse that Paul must have felt? Guilt can be crippling. Combined with depression it can leave a person unable to function. Although I have no scriptural proof, I can imagine Paul falling into a mode of guilt and remorse on occasion. Very few things can humble a man more than his own past. While Paul was forgiven by God, the memories of those he persecuted may have haunted him until his death. In a way, the Lord may have used Paul's previous hatred for the Way as an equipping for his ministry to the gentiles. His fervent love for groups such as the Corinthians and the Ephesians may have been deepened because of his past.

Again....no proof, just speculation.

[Edited on 5-21-2006 by BaptistInCrisis]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

See this thread for some previous discussion on this point.

[Mod]Mod's edit for link removal, as the two have been merged]Thanks, Andrew![/Mod]

[Edited on 5-21-2006 by joshua]

 

[Herald]

Would a mod or admin please join this post to the one that was linked in the previous post?

Thanks.

Bill

 

[turmeric]

Originally posted by trevorjohnson
It was Tourettes.....




....that is why Tertius had to edit Romans......


.... to clean up the bad parts!

 

[DTK]

Originally posted by Puritanhead
In 2 Corinthians 12:1-10, which the Apostle Paul makes reference to his thorn in the flesh--

Why is it that so many scholars think that the thorn in his flesh is his eyes (i.e. poor eyesight)?

What is the substantive evidence for this induction? Could it not have some deeper spiritual dimension in light of references to visions and revelations of the Lord? Or does references to infirmities provide the much simpler answer like that generally assumed? Any thoughts?

I am, by and large, ignorant as to the nature of Paul's "thorn in the flesh," but among other biblical passages referenced for such proof, some point to Paul's failure to recognize the high priest in Acts 23:1-5, and argue it was due to this physical problem.

DTK