Provisions for the flesh.

[Jeremy]

Romans 13:13-14

"The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make NO PROVISION for the flesh, to gratify its desires."

What would be some "provisions for the flesh?" I say this especially in light of the last post by Gabe about drinking.

[Edited on 10-10-2005 by Jeremy]

 

[Scott Bushey]

Verse 13 details types of 'provisions':

not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Matthew Poole:

Rom 13:14. Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ; he exhorted, Rom 13:12, to put on the armour of light; now, to put on Jesus Christ. This is necessary, for though grace may help to defend, yet it is Christ and his righteousness only that can cover us (as a garment doth our nakedness) in the sight of God. To put on Christ, is to receive him and rest upon him by faith; as also to profess and imitate him. You have the same phrase, Gal 3:27. Make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof: by flesh, here, some understand the corrupt nature; others, the body. When he says, make not provision for the flesh, he doth not mean, that they should not provide things necessary for the body; this is allowed, Eph 5:29; 1 Tim 5:23; we are no where commanded to neglect or macerate our bodies; but he means, that we should not gratify it in its sinful lusts or lustings: see 1 Cor 11:27. Sustain it we may, but pamper it we may not: we must not care, cater, or make projects for the flesh, to fulfil its inordinacies and cravings.

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Verse 13 details types of 'provisions':

not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy

Let's take that list and add to it all the items mentioned in Galatians 5:19-21.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Jeremy

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Verse 13 details types of 'provisions':

not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy

Let's take that list and add to it all the items mentioned in Galatians 5:19-21.

You want to add to the word of God?

jus kiddin; I know what you mean.

 

[Jeremy]

Getting a little more practical in order to clarify my intent,

If, for example, adultery and fornication are works of the flesh, what would be a practical example of making provision for those sins?

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Jeremy
Getting a little more practical in order to clarify my intent,

If, for example, adultery and fornication are works of the flesh, what would be a practical example of making provision for those sins?

Anything that would compromise that.

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by Jeremy
Getting a little more practical in order to clarify my intent,

If, for example, adultery and fornication are works of the flesh, what would be a practical example of making provision for those sins?

Anything that would compromise that.

Like what?

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally posted by Jeremy
Getting a little more practical in order to clarify my intent,

If, for example, adultery and fornication are works of the flesh, what would be a practical example of making provision for those sins?

Putting yourself in a situation where you would be more open or susceptible to temptation.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Jeremy

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by Jeremy
Getting a little more practical in order to clarify my intent,

If, for example, adultery and fornication are works of the flesh, what would be a practical example of making provision for those sins?

Anything that would compromise that.

Like what?

C'mon Jeremy, you know what causes you to sin in this regard.

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by Jeremy

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by Jeremy
Getting a little more practical in order to clarify my intent,

If, for example, adultery and fornication are works of the flesh, what would be a practical example of making provision for those sins?

Anything that would compromise that.

Like what?

C'mon Jeremy, you know what causes you to sin in this regard.

The iniquity in my own heart causes me to sin.

But what is a "provision" for that sin?

Okay, too common of an example, how about "idolatry" (Gal. 5:20). What is a provision for that sin?

I am honestly seeking to expand my understanding of what God requires of me here.

 

[BrianBowman]

Originally posted by Jeremy
Getting a little more practical in order to clarify my intent,

If, for example, adultery and fornication are works of the flesh, what would be a practical example of making provision for those sins?

_Anything_ that causes us to be deficient in our undivided attention to the holiness of Christ. Here are some fantastic guidelines from the Westminster Larger Catechism:

137. Which is the seventh commandment?
The seventh commandment is, Thou shalt not commit adultery.

138. What are the duties required in the seventh commandment?
The duties required in the seventh commandment are, chastity in body, mind, affections, words, and behavior; and the preservation of it in ourselves and others; watchfulness over the eyes and all the senses; temperance, keeping of chaste company, modesty in apparel; marriage by those that have not the gift of continency, conjugal love, and cohabitation; diligent labor in our callings; shunning all occasions of uncleanness, and resisting temptations thereunto.

139. What are the sins forbidden in the seventh commandment?
The sins forbidden in the seventh commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, adultery, fornication, rape, incest, sodomy, and all unnatural lusts; all unclean imaginations, thoughts, purposes, and affections;all corrupt or filthy communications, or listening thereunto; wanton looks, impudent or light behavior, immodest apparel; prohibiting of lawful, and dispensing with unlawful marriages; allowing, tolerating, keeping of stews, and resorting to them; entangling vows of single life, undue delay of marriage; having more wives or husbands than one at the same time; unjust divorce, or desertion; idleness, gluttony, drunkenness, unchaste company; lascivious songs, books, pictures, dancings, stage plays; and all other provocations to, or acts of uncleanness, either in ourselves or others.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Jeremy

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by Jeremy

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by Jeremy
Getting a little more practical in order to clarify my intent,

If, for example, adultery and fornication are works of the flesh, what would be a practical example of making provision for those sins?

Anything that would compromise that.

Like what?

C'mon Jeremy, you know what causes you to sin in this regard.

The iniquity in my own heart causes me to sin.

But what is a "provision" for that sin?

Okay, too common of an example, how about "idolatry" (Gal. 5:20). What is a provision for that sin?

I am honestly seeking to expand my understanding of what God requires of me here.

Idolatry would be anything that we see as more important than God or in place of God.

@@ jeremy,
You have a u2u

[Edited on 10-9-2005 by Scott Bushey]

 

[BrianBowman]

Jeremy,

Honestly, my brother, if you are struggling with these things (and who amoung us either has not had this very struggle or even continues to at times) then I highly recommend Matt's book: Overcoming Lust in a Sex-Crazed World. You can purchase it at: http://www.puritanpublications.com/Books/OvercomingLust.htm

[Edited on 10-9-2005 by BrianBowman]

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by BrianBowman
Jeremy,

Honestly, my brother, if you are struggling with these things (and who amoung us either has not had this very struggle or even continues to at times) then I highly recommend Matt's book: Overcoming Lust in a Sex-Crazed World. You can purchase it at: http://www.puritanpublications.com/Books/OvercomingLust.htm

[Edited on 10-9-2005 by BrianBowman]

I just picked adultery and fornication as a conversation starter. As all men, in the past, before I came to know Christ, those are definitely things I struggled with. But this was just for the sake of getting to know the scriptures.

I'll give an example. King David was a man after God's own heart, but he made a provision for the flesh by going out to see Bathsheba bathing (probably on her roof, someone correct me if I'm wrong), and eventually, even though he was a solid believer, he fell.

So, does the scripture say, "If you are weak and are struggling, make no provision for the flesh." No. This is a scripture that is given to all of us. My intent is to work through this list in Galatians and in Romans, which includes many different sins and come to some practical conclusions how we in this day and age can avoid some of these potential future pitfalls.

Scott,

U2U back

 

[turmeric]

Have you read John Owen's Mortification of Sin? J.i.Packer's intro is helpful as well, and instructive about modern pitfalls.

 

[Jeremy]

Sorry, I was taking care of something else and had to go away. I'm back now.

So, Come on, there must be some references you can give from your own life, where you have personally obeyed this passage.

How about Cable TV? A very popular thing today, but wouldn't this fall into the class of making provision for the flesh. All those commercials, etc. are bound to sow seeds of covetousness in us.

How 'bout it?

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Verse 13 details types of 'provisions':

not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy

These are works of the flesh as given in Romans:

1. Orgies
2. Drunkenness
3. Sexual immorality
4. Sensuality
5. Quarreling
6. Jealousy

Here is another more comprehensive list of the works of the flesh in Gal. 5:19-21

1. Sexual immorality
2. Impurity
3. Sensuality
4. Idolatry
5. Sorcery
6. Enmity
7. Strife
8. Jealousy
9. Fits of anger
10. Rivalries
11. Dissensions
12. Divisions
13. Envy
14. Drunkenness
15. Orgies
16. Things like these.

So the commandment is "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires." -Rom. 13:14

The above lists are the works of the flesh. So what are some of the modern "provisions" for these things we are told to avoid?

 

[turmeric]

This is, as you must realize, dangerous territory, because making such lists can be an occasion for self-righteousness, which is WAY more dangerous than many of the above-listed sins because it can be damning. Having come from a background which emphasized outward acts as sin rather than recognizing that sin is within us and will never be removed entirely until death or translation,(whichever comes first), I personally know the dangers of this kind of thing. Perhaps im my case, refusing to start making lists of things to avoid would be refusing to make provision for the flesh. (No sarcasm intended, I still struggle with this stuff, which makes it hard to do the one work of God, namely to believe in Him who He sent).

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by turmeric
This is, as you must realize, dangerous territory, because making such lists can be an occasion for self-righteousness, which is WAY more dangerous than many of the above-listed sins because it can be damning. Having come from a background which emphasized outward acts as sin rather than recognizing that sin is within us and will never be removed entirely until death or translation,(whichever comes first), I personally know the dangers of this kind of thing. Perhaps im my case, refusing to start making lists of things to avoid would be refusing to make provision for the flesh. (No sarcasm intended, I still struggle with this stuff, which makes it hard to do the one work of God, namely to believe in Him who He sent).

Making a provision for something is making an opportunity for it, right? It is leaving a window open for temptation and sin.

So, if you are tempted to drink too much when you are around alcohol, you should avoid having it and/or going places that have it. Isn't this what the text is saying?

If you are prone to put things in priority before God, then for the sake of your soul, those things that become idols in your heart ought to be avoided. For example, if you can't overcome the urge to constantly sit down and watch tv instead of serving the Lord, for the sake of your own soul, get rid of the dumb tv.

It's a heart issue rather than an external issue. It all goes back to the fact that Christ must be our supreme treasure and pursuit in life, and for the sake of your own spiritual health and for the sake of the Lord, "Cleanse yourself of all filthiness of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."


-J

 

[turmeric]

And why isn't He our supreme treasure? Watching TV instead of serving Him is symptomatic of His not being our supreme treasure, so what is the heart-issue that keeps us from loving Him?

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by turmeric
And why isn't He our supreme treasure? Watching TV instead of serving Him is symptomatic of His not being our supreme treasure, so what is the heart-issue that keeps us from loving Him?

Having Christ as our supreme treasure is precisely what makes us keenly aware of these things. The more we treasure Christ, the less we want the world. What keeps us from loving God is loving the world and loving our own thing. But as First John points out, those who have the hope of one day being sinless and completely Christlike "purify themselves, even as he is pure". They will desire to be rid of the things of the world,

Before we know the Lord, we are dead to righteousness and alive to sin, so these things are not apparent to us. But when we are awakened to our sinful condition, we begin to see the need to cast off the works of the flesh and be pure as he is pure.

 

[turmeric]

Where does the active righteousness of Christ fit into your concept of sanctification?

What does "putting God first" look like? How does one interact with the world while doing this, or does one interact with the world?

What about the fact that by nature we just don't love God?

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by turmeric
Where does the active righteousness of Christ fit into your concept of sanctification?

What does "putting God first" look like? How does one interact with the world while doing this, or does one interact with the world?

What about the fact that by nature we just don't love God?

Sanctification is not a concept, nor does it involve sitting around discussing semantics. If you are honestly trying to enlighten me to what you believe to be truth, then why don't you draw from scripture and from what God has shown you personally with a sincere desire to help.

If you look at my original post that I started on this thread, you will see that we have gotten off the beaten path. My question was concerning a command in scripture to do something, that is, to make no provision for the flesh. You opted to argue about it rather than come to unity with your brother in obedience to God. Sounds like you're avoiding the issue rather than trying to solve it.

By nature, we don't love God because of the iniquity of our hearts. But, what does Isaiah say is the nature of our iniquity, "We all like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way". So, it's due to the iniquity of our own hearts that we do our own thing before we know Christ. But God in his mercy saves us and conforms us to the image of Christ, giving us the new desire to serve him.

But don't ignore the fact that even though God sanctifies us, and that He foreordained that we would be conformed to the image of Christ, we are given command to obey Him and His word. Our own personal obedience is part of sanctification. Look at the scriptures, we are told to "cut off our hand" "pluck out our eye" "cut off our feet". We are given command by God to be holy.

We are in the world, but not of it. We are called to be separate from worldiness while in the world.

I have tried to study the scriptures and discuss them with mature Christian people whom I thought existed on this forum. Apparently, people are here to argue and sit around talking about being Christians. I am interested in not only knowing God through the scriptures, but also putting what I know into practice in every day life. I thought I would come back here to have some good discussions, but apparently not.

 

[turmeric]

I apologize.

I may have misunderstood you. I do not want to argue to no profit. I try to avoid argument on this board, because I don't do it well for one thing. I haven't used Scripture because I was trying to clarify what your position is. I don't like to use even that sword in the dark. Too easy to hurt someone.

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by turmeric
I may have misunderstood you. I do not want to argue to no profit. I try to avoid argument on this board, because I don't do it well for one thing. I haven't used Scripture because I was trying to clarify what your position is. I don't like to use even that sword in the dark. Too easy to hurt someone.

If I was rather rash, I am sorry as well.

My intent was to have a light conversation about practical obedience. That's all. I was just aiming to come to some conclusions with like-minded brothers/sisters who have a heart like David. David knew God's sovereignty and rested in it. That's what gave him the courage to go up against Goliath. He was a great theologian and he knew the Lord better than all of us put together. But he was a man after God's own heart, in that he desired to keep his heart right with God at all times. He constantly wanted to please God by obeying him and doing the right thing as Daniel desired as well. But look how David fell into sin because he kept looking.

This is who God is addressing in Romans 13:14, people who lay down their life for Christ as a living sacrifice and who desire to not only know God, but to obey his gospel as well (see 2 Thess. 1:8). When we are following after Christ in all sincerity, the problems and temptations of life come after us to get us down. So Paul is telling us in Romans 13:14 not to lay stumbling blocks for ourselves. My intent was to discuss what some of those modern stumbling blocks might be in our lives. Just a chance to discuss practically how we have obeyed or plan to obey the Lord in this passage.

Blessings,

J

[Edited on 10-11-2005 by Jeremy]