What is wrong with Tim Tebow

[toddpedlar]

In this commandment the Lord forbiddeth idleness or sleeping more on the Lord's day in the morning, than is of necessity

Randy are you really good with that?

1) Any basic reformed discussion of the Sabbath includes provision for the providers of necessary basic services like electricity, water and gas (the internet is questionable perhaps). This has been hashed and rehashed myriad times on the PB and elsewhere. No need to dredge it up again, as it's a non-starter.

? The fact that you call firing up the internet on Sunday questionable shows there's a lot of room for bringing the subject up again. You're either buying electricity for something you don't need or you aren't, is my take on it. If there's any question you can go outside and watch the meter turn.

I think you mistake my being rhetorically charitable for the main meaning. The internet itself isn't necessarily a problem. Am I going on the internet to play chess? Ok, that's a problem on the Lord's day. Am I going on it to access my online libraries to do devotional reading? That's a different question. The internet is for many practical purposes a necessity (in fact a large part of the preceding services - gas, electrical power, water - require internet connectivity for their basic operation).

Regardless of any of that, to argue that NFL football on the Lord's day is permissible by bringing up things like driving on the road and electrical service as clear places where one violates the Sabbath in using them is a plainly fallacious tactic. It doesn't even get out of the gate.

 

[Pilgrim Standard]

but sports are unnecessary by definition.

I second this.

 

[pre-seminary?]

It is, indeed, unfortunate that the NFL seems to have a monopoly on Sunday afternoons. However, to be totally honest, I think one would need to be incredibly ignorant of the broader evangelical consensus on Sabbath observance to have been surprised that Tebow plays football on Sundays (a couple of you have touched on that). It would appear that a Christian has essentially no place in pro football if he observes the Sabbath as it is meant to be observed.

That being said, I have to commend Tebow for his willingness to proclaim the gospel in an incredibly public sphere. He has also spoken openly about his intent to save sex for marriage and did a pro-life commercial during the SuperBowl! All of our attempts to witness to God's glory are to some degree flawed, so I have to admit I feel compelled to cut the guy some slack; as a Christian sports fan, its hard not to love him. Here is an interesting article from the Gospel Coalition, and a humorous video:

Tebow, Calvin, and the Hand of God in Sports – The Gospel Coalition Blog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMK9FKMG3Nc

 

[Zenas]

You would still be requiring people to work on the sabbath in order to entertain you. It is not as if it was just shown on Sundays. The entire spectacle is preformed on Sunday. Just food for thought

But he's not watching on the Sabbath. If the logic is we shouldn't watch any NFL, even on the other six days of the week because they play on the Lord's Day, wouldn't this logic expect us to not ever eat at restaurants that are open on the Lord's Day? For example, McDonald's is open on Sundays. Even though I won't go there on Sundays, is it wrong for me to eat there Monday since I'm supporting a business that requires people to work on the Sabbath?

If I am understanding this correctly, I don't think that logic is right. A closer view might be that we wouldn't eat the food on Monday that was cooked on Sunday, since even if we put off consumption, the production was still done on the Sabbath.

Now see... this is getting awfully close to the pharisaical view of the Sabbath In my humble opinion. We need to be careful about this.

Which I think is exactly the point Andre was making re: watching a football game played on Sunday.

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

There's a lot wrong with Tim Tebow. As a Christian, I think he would readily admit that. While I definitely disagree with working on the Sabbath, and I do see playing football for money to draw advertising and other revenue for team owners and television stations as work, isn't it a poor reflection on us that we dig to find whatever theological flaws we can with the only significant public figure who seems to consistently, yet arguably imperfectly, proclaim Christ from his position? If the magnifying glass were on each of us, I'm willing to wager that lengthy discussions would take place regarding our own failings, whether real or perceived. I'm not saying it's wrong to teach the Biblical view that work should be refrained from on the Lord's day. I am questioning whether we should use that position as a basis to hyperanalyze a kid on a football team who, from all reports, is a sincere Christian and a joy to play with.

 

[pre-seminary?]

Thanks for that, Andrew. To turn things around a little further yet, maybe it would be more useful to ask ourselves about the boldness with which we proclaim the gospel in our own sphere of influence. Some of you might be yawning at the simplicity of this sentiment. Could this have something to do with the fact that some of our initial excitement about this topic may have had a lot to do with jealousy? Sometimes it feels good to find fault in someone who is doing a better job than us at preaching Christ. In my estimation, a lot of us here at PB are probably fairly avid in our Sabbath observance, but less effective in communicating some of the presuppositions for why its important to those outside a strictly Reformed enclave. Just a thought. (this will likely apply to some, not all)

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

In this commandment the Lord forbiddeth idleness or sleeping more on the Lord's day in the morning, than is of necessity

Randy are you really good with that?

Not sure I understand the question Tim. I am usually up reading and preparing my heart early in the morning. I eat at Mom's after church and take a nap afterwards. Then I usually return to Church for the evening service. I don't see anything wrong with that part if that is what you are asking me. There is the positive reinforcement of doing what we ought to be doing in that statement. Don't you think?

 

[Don Kistler]

Thank you for bringing some much needed wisdom to this discussion, Joshua. It has been tough for me to see all the vitriol directed at Tim Tebow. I dare say he's never been taught any Sabbath theology. So it's a much greater sin for one of us to violate the Sabbath, knowing what we know. As our Lord said, "If ye KNOW these things, happy are ye if ye do them."

Also, the Scriptures enjoin us that "whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, etc., think on THESE things." The kid is doing a lot of good things, and we ought to applaud him for those, and then pray for him to be instructed in the others.

Sanctification is a process, and we're all in it. The very thread title, "What's WRONG with Tim Tebow," starts with a negative. One of the criticisms too often laid at Reformed people's feet is that we're against everything and for nothing. In Paul's admonition quoted above, all his list is comprised of positive things. Let's think on those for a change.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I agree with Dr. Kistler and Josh. A lot!

 

[Jeff Burns]

And more seriously:

[MODERATOR] Characterization of the debate about NFL football as a Sabbath-breaking activity as "sanctimonious drabble" is not acceptable. The position of the confessions is clear, and characterizing adherence to it as "sanctimonious"? You should know better. No more, please. [/MODERATOR]

At the risk of getting this post deleted for being contra-confession, I think it's funny (and sad) that there's at least one or two threads on here every week somehow related to sabbath issues and sabbath breaking, and every time meaningful discussion is (for the most part) impossible because dissenting opinions are disallowed out of the gate. Why do we keep wasting so much time discussing this stuff when we know the only position we're allowed to arrive at is the one we're starting with in the first place???

 

[toddpedlar]

And more seriously:

[MODERATOR] Characterization of the debate about NFL football as a Sabbath-breaking activity as "sanctimonious drabble" is not acceptable. The position of the confessions is clear, and characterizing adherence to it as "sanctimonious"? You should know better. No more, please. [/MODERATOR]

At the risk of getting this post deleted for being contra-confession, I think it's funny (and sad) that there's at least one or two threads on here every week somehow related to sabbath issues and sabbath breaking, and every time meaningful discussion is (for the most part) impossible because dissenting opinions are disallowed out of the gate. Why do we keep wasting so much time discussing this stuff when we know the only position we're allowed to arrive at is the one we're starting with in the first place???

Jeff -

If you paid attention to what was written there, first, you'd see that the warning came not because the position offered was contra-confessional, but because statement was made that the discussion in which the confessional position was being laid out is "sanctimonious drabble". That kind of snippy retort is simply not going to fly.

Second... there is nothing wrong with offering that you disagree with the confession. There is also no restriction against your arrival at the conclusion that the confession is in error - nobody is going to "discipline" you in that regard, though there may be (will be) people who will maintain the confessional teaching. There is nothing wrong with asking questions to clarify the confessional stance on various items... nothing wrong with that at all. If such questions (not defenses of contraconfessional teaching, but genuine questions about the confessional position) are shut down, that's a pity - they should be allowed. But the position of this board is quite clear regarding advocacy of contra-confessional positions.

This is not one of those cases. Nobody's been warned other than verbally, and the warning had nothing to do with whether or not the poster had taken a contra-confessional position.

Todd

 

[seajayrice]

The NFL provides work.

 

[CalvinandHodges]

Hi All:

Thanks to those who responded to my inquiry.

I hope that the tone of the OP did not come across as vitriolic. I tried to be careful in noting that Tim Tebow is a Christian, and that he has a wonderful profession of faith. My post was not intended to tear him down, but my concern was on another level.

My concern is that Mr. Tebow's practice of working on the Sabbath is a bad example for Christians to imitate. That is, the "success" of his witness would inspire Christians to play and practice sports on Sunday's rather than resting the whole day through. The concern is not without warrant, because an associate pastor friend of mine has been swept away by the popularity of Mr. Tebow that my friend seems to have forgotten the nature of the Fourth Commandment.

If my language was offensive, then I do apologize.

Blessings,

Rob

 

[Andres]

Hi Rob,
I think your concern is a valid one. I wrote an open letter to Tebow and posted it on my blog last year before Tebow was drafted. My main point of the letter was that Tebow should forgo an NFL career for a few reasons, but the main one being the issue of the 4th commandment. If you're interested, you may read it here.

 

[Zach]

The more I hear about Tebow, the more I like him and want him to succeed. I don't support his Sabbath breaking, but he seems to be one of the few people in the spotlight who gladly, openly, and unapologetically, professes Christ. I think that we Reformed should pray for him to come to a biblical perspective of the Sabbath day and that he would have the courage to act upon that conviction. What a great testament to the glory of Christ if one of the NFL's best Quarterbacks were to retire because he did not want to violate God's law. Something like that would certainly revitalize the topic of Sabbath keeping and hopefully the Lord would use it to bring many to a biblical perspective of the Sabbath day.

 

[Don Kistler]

Some years ago, the great baseball pitcher Sandy Koufax, who was Jewish, told the Dodgers he would not pitch on the Sabbath, which for him was Saturday. It's a bit "apples and oranges" because he could pitch any other day of the week and just take that day off. In the NFL, a person could not pick and choose which days he would play.

Just curious...if Tim Tebow played his games on Sunday and took a full day of the week off as a Sabbath and spent it in spiritual exercises, Bible study, prayer, meditation on the Scriptures, etc, would that be acceptable to his critics here?
That's a question, not an editorial.

Preachers have to work Sundays, obviously a work of necessity, but should still take a "sabbath" day during the week. I'll be interested in your responses.

 

[jogri17]

Before my current Pastor, I never heard of the Lord's day (I do think that is a much better term than sabbath) or any continuation of the 4th commandment. Some others simply do not believe it is biblical and believe Collisions 2 negates any notion of a continuation of the 4th commandment. Instead of looking down our nooses against others brothers and sisters, let's just agree to disagree and keep each other our of our various communions and when asked give a defense in love. That is where I stand.

 

[TimV]

One of the keys to the Sabbath was that it was public. So, the Prophet kept all manner of folks out of Jerusalem who had come to do business on the Sabbath. The guy from Tyre who took Tuesdays off didn't get let in regardless.

 

[py3ak]

Collisions 2 negates any notion of a continuation of the 4th commandment

That would be an aptly named book for proclaiming changes in the comprehensive summary of mankind’s duties. Since the word has been settled in heaven, however, it is no surprise that there is nothing like this in Scripture.

 

[Bethel]

Just curious...if Tim Tebow played his games on Sunday and took a full day of the week off as a Sabbath and spent it in spiritual exercises, Bible study, prayer, meditation on the Scriptures, etc, would that be acceptable to his critics here? That's a question, not an editorial.

I would consider this action to be a rationalization of sin when there should be discernment. Isaiah specifically warns against this.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!​

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Collisions 2 negates any notion of a continuation of the 4th commandment

That would be an aptly named book for proclaiming changes in the comprehensive summary of mankind’s duties. Since the word has been settled in heaven, however, it is no surprise that there is nothing like this in Scripture.

Oh no! Not another one of these discussions. LOL. I would think this issue has been settled a few times over since we have thoroughly shown this to not be true concerning the triad.

 

[KMK]

Preachers have to work Sundays, obviously a work of necessity, but should still take a "sabbath" day during the week.

I have never heard this before. Is this a matter of precept or principle?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Don't know about precept but in practice many Presbyterian ministers I know have Monday off from work.

I have never heard this before. Is this a matter of precept or principle?

 

[JML]

Don't know about precept but in practice many Presbyterian ministers I know have Monday off from work.

Originally Posted by KMK
I have never heard this before. Is this a matter of precept or principle?

When I was a full-time Baptist pastor, I had Monday off as well.

 

[KMK]

Don't know about precept but in practice many Presbyterian ministers I know have Monday off from work.

I have never heard this before. Is this a matter of precept or principle?

But was it called a Sabbath? Could the Pastor engage in recreational activities or was it dedicated entirely to worship?

 

[Zach]

Those Pastors I know who do it are not Reformed, so they do not hold to abstinence from Recreations as part of the Sabbath day, but I would imagine if they came to that conviction they would abstain from recreations that day as well since they view it very much as their "Sabbath Day". I think though that the Reformed Pastor would keep the Lord's Day (obviously) and if they take Monday off be able to pursue their recreations as they still keep the Lord's Day. The Commandment does say that Men are to work 6 days, but the Pastor still is working 6 days because of the nature of his necessary and good work on the Lord's Day. That's my

 

[RobertPGH1981]

I would say, why Focus so much attention on the Sabbath when we constantly break the other 9 commandments daily? Are the individuals that follow the Sabbath better than the ones that do not? Doesn't this cause boasting if you compare your brothers in Christ to yourself? Just because Tim Tebow may break the Sabbath, I am sure he breaks other commandments as well. Don't we all break God's Law? Please show me a man that is not Jesus that kept God's law perfectly.

I feel like the Tebow bashing is getting old and it needs to stop. He is our Brother in Christ, and instead of looking at the negative we should commend him for the positive. He gets enough negative attention from the media and non-chrsitians as it is. Being a Public figure in any venue is difficult, being a public figure and a Christian at the same time means that you will be watched more closely.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Because, in this particular context, the sabbath is the one brought most in to question. While there may be some "bashing" going on somewhere, rightful criticism is not bashing. For what it's worth, I've mentioned and affirmed the good things pertaining to Mr. Tebow, but that doesn't mean I am prohibited from criticizing publicly those things which he does wrongly publicly.

I understand what you are saying but we will always find fault with everyone. I am sure the reason he doesn't follow the Sabbath is because his church teaching isn't inline with following the Sabbath. I doubt he is even reformed and adheres to a confession (I am not sure about that). Maybe I am being judgmental here as well but hearing all the assaults on him on TV, Radio and boards upsets me, so if I came off that way I apologize. I rarely see postings of positive things about Tebow only negative.

 

[Zach]

I will be the first to confess that Tim Tebow is no worse sinner than I am, Robert. He does deserves our charity as a sincere brother in Christ. However, just because we all are sinners does not make it ok break God's law. Tim Tebow's working on the Sabbath is a violation of God's law and it is not bashing him to point that out. We should commend him for the positive, and there is much to be commended, but we should not brush off Tebow's breaking of the Fourth Commandment as unimportant just because we all fail to keep God's law.

 

[py3ak]

I would say, why Focus so much attention on the Sabbath when we constantly break the other 9 commandments daily? Are the individuals that follow the Sabbath better than the ones that do not? Doesn't this cause boasting if you compare your brothers in Christ to yourself? Just because Tim Tebow may break the Sabbath, I am sure he breaks other commandments as well. Don't we all break God's Law? Please show me a man that is not Jesus that kept God's law perfectly.

I feel like the Tebow bashing is getting old and it needs to stop. He is our Brother in Christ, and instead of looking at the negative we should commend him for the positive. He gets enough negative attention from the media and non-chrsitians as it is. Being a Public figure in any venue is difficult, being a public figure and a Christian at the same time means that you will be watched more closely.

Criticism is sometimes necessary to avoid countenancing an error.