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What is wrong with Tim Tebow

Discussion in 'The Pilgrims Progress' started by CalvinandHodges, Dec 18, 2011.

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  1. CalvinandHodges

    CalvinandHodges Puritan Board Junior

    Hi:

    I believe that Tim Tebow is a Christian, and that he is sincere in his faith to God. I also think that it is refreshing to see a sports figure who is not a drunk, drug addict, woman abuser, animal abuser, or a gambler, but displays an affection for God, and gives all the glory specifically to Jesus Christ. As such, I think that Tim Tebow's faith is one that should inspire many Christians in and out of sports.

    What irks me about Tim Tebow is that his wonderful profession of faith is a means to justify working on the Sabbath. The Reformed view of keeping the Sabbath day holy is that we are to refrain from our work and recreations and devote the day to God. That only works of "necessity and mercy" are acceptable activities on the Sabbath day. Mr. Tebow's profession is that of a Quarterback in the NFL. This causes him to work on the Sabbath. Also, I have never seen a learned treatise that claims that the sport of Football falls into the category of necessity nor that of mercy. So, to play it or watch it played on the Sabbath seems to be contrary to the Christian Walk. What worries me is that such a wonderful profession is being used to promote unrighteousness rather than righteousness.

    I gleaned this view of the Sabbath from reading the Bible, WSC Q60 and Q61 as well as Richard Gaffin's treatise on, Calvin and the Sabbath, Joeseph Pipa's, The Lord's Day, Walter Chantry's, Call the Sabbath a Delight, and Dennison's, The Market Day of the Soul.

    The way to destroy Christianity is to put an end to Sabbath observance.

    Blessings,

    Rob
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  2. jwithnell

    jwithnell Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Rob, you and I and most everyone else on the board have been blessed by excellent teaching. I know many committed Christians who have no idea that the sabbath is required of them and have had the Bible twisted around so that they don't even see the plain truth in the reading on the subject. This is one area where we can be a witness within the community of faith. To me it seemed so evident because of excellent teaching: I haven't watched a pro game since maybe a month or so after coming to Christ, and no one even had to say that football was a problem; it was the natural outworking of the teaching on the law.
     
  3. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Graduate

    So if the Sabbath is eliminated the devil wins?
     
  4. MLCOPE2

    MLCOPE2 Puritan Board Junior

    It would seem that J.C. Ryle had a similar sentiment regarding the desecration of the Sabbath:

     
  5. TimV

    TimV Puritanboard Botanist

    But the Westminster West thinkers say the Reformers were wrong and didn't take their theology to it's logical conclusion, which is that the Church should have nothing to do with Christianising secular institutions. That would be "cultural transformation" and to be avoided at all cost. So there is no more such a legit thing as a Christian work week as there is Christian education.
     
  6. MarquezsDg

    MarquezsDg Puritan Board Freshman

    Is it a loophole to DVR your fav NFL team and watch them on Monday then? This thread is intresting and never really given much thought but Im a huge NFL guy. and was just thinking this to myself if dvr the games would then be ok.
     
  7. Unoriginalname

    Unoriginalname Puritan Board Junior

    You would still be requiring people to work on the sabbath in order to entertain you. It is not as if it was just shown on Sundays. The entire spectacle is preformed on Sunday. Just food for thought
     
  8. asc

    asc Puritan Board Sophomore

    What's wrong with Tim Tebow?

    I know little about Tebow, but I'd assume like most American evangelicals, he has a low view of the Sabbath. Is this really a surprise? (Or is he Reformed or confessional?)
     
  9. Marrow Man

    Marrow Man Drunk with Powder

    What's wrong with Tim Tebow. He played college football for the University of Florida Gators. 'Nuff said.

    He not only works on the Lord's Day, but contributes to the mindless entertainment that distracts from the Lord's Day.
     
  10. jwithnell

    jwithnell Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    I agree with Eric, that we are to be careful about what we have others do on the Lord's Day. When the fourth commandment is given under the Mosaic covenant, numerous groups are mentioned including the stranger that is within your gate -- a catch-all that would include even those who are unknown to us and outside the faith.

    It is interesting to me that the NFL took hold and flourished after most of the US had abandoned even the cultural recognition of a sabbath rest. Before that, people watched football when they should: when the SEC was playing on Saturdays. :)
     
  11. Marrow Man

    Marrow Man Drunk with Powder

    If I recall correctly, the NFL almost withered and died in the early half of the 20th century. It was TV that saved it. The fact that people could stay home and watch the game saved the league.
     
  12. Brother John

    Brother John Puritan Board Sophomore

    If a christian was talented enough do you think they could get signed to a team if they refused to dress on The Lord's Day? Are there enough Monday night games a year for a team to pay a player the minimum salary. Probably a dumb question but I thought I would throw it out there.
     
  13. Andres

    Andres Puritan Board Doctor

    Absolutely no way an NFL team would sign a player who refused to play on the Lord's Day.

    ---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

    But he's not watching on the Sabbath. If the logic is we shouldn't watch any NFL, even on the other six days of the week because they play on the Lord's Day, wouldn't this logic expect us to not ever eat at restaurants that are open on the Lord's Day? For example, McDonald's is open on Sundays. Even though I won't go there on Sundays, is it wrong for me to eat there Monday since I'm supporting a business that requires people to work on the Sabbath?
     
  14. seajayrice

    seajayrice Puritan Board Sophomore

    If I'm Tebow's agent, he's a work of necessity.
     
  15. AThornquist

    AThornquist Puritan Board Doctor

    If I am understanding this correctly, I don't think that logic is right. A closer view might be that we wouldn't eat the food on Monday that was cooked on Sunday, since even if we put off consumption, the production was still done on the Sabbath.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2011
  16. Unoriginalname

    Unoriginalname Puritan Board Junior

    I was just throwing the idea out there and not trying to be dogmatic. The nfl is a non issue to me anyway so I guess I approach it with an attitude that it is all silliness, as spoken from a man in an apron. I was not attempting to bind anyone's conscious to the notion
     
  17. Andres

    Andres Puritan Board Doctor

    Good point. You're right that analogy is probably better. Now with that in mind, I'm thinking the majority of restaurants do some sort of prep work the day before, therefore Monday's consumption involved some sort of work on the Lord's Day. Does anyone on the board boycott restaurants all-together or at least consider this implication?

    ---------- Post added at 12:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 AM ----------

    No worries brother. In all honesty, I've struggled to in the past on whether I could in good conscience enjoy NFL games on Monday that I recorded on Sunday. I still don't know the answer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2011
  18. J. Dean

    J. Dean Puritan Board Junior

    Now see... this is getting awfully close to the pharisaical view of the Sabbath In my humble opinion. We need to be careful about this.
     
  19. FCC

    FCC Puritan Board Freshman

    Is the question really what is wrong with Tim Tebow? Or should it be what is wrong with our culture? I have struggled with this myself recently and still haven't found a good answer. I do not watch the NFL or any other professional or college sport, for biblical reasons, including the Sabbath breaking that is involved. But it seems that we have raised up another "popular" Christian and endowed him with almost idol like qualities. He stands for what passes for evangelical Christianity in our day and that is a sad commentary on the church. Examining Tebow and the whole craze has made me grieve over current state of the church and look more and more unto Christ, who alone is able to defend His church and raise her from the dust in which she seems so comfortable!
     
  20. John Lanier

    John Lanier Puritan Board Junior

    Just curious as to why you don't watch college sports since you brought it up and said there were biblical reasons for not doing so.
     
  21. CalvinandHodges

    CalvinandHodges Puritan Board Junior

    Hi:

    I thank you all for your excellent posts and thoughtful thoughts. I could now use some advise: A short time ago a friend of mine fully endorsed the actions of Tim Tebow in a public forum. He posted a picture of himself and his family all wearing Denver Bronco uniforms, and pointed out that he wished more Christians were like Mr. Tebow. When I pointed out the contents in the above OP on the public forum that he was writing on he then sent me a private message saying that I was being disruptive in the Church because I should have aired my difference with him in private. I then pointed out that he posted on a public forum, and that I replied on the same forum.

    What bothers me is that he is an associate pastor in a Reformed church, and he should have known better, or, he should have qualified his endorsement of Tim Tebow. Posting such things as a pastor would cause other Christians to follow the example of Tim Tebow.

    What do you think?

    Blessings,

    Rob
     
  22. calgal

    calgal Puritan Board Graduate

    The only problem with Tebow is he is not a Bear. As for the sanctimonious drabble, you turn on the heat, use electricity, running water, drive on the roads, get online etc. By doing these things, you compel someone else to work on the Sabbath.
     
  23. Tripel

    Tripel Puritan Board Senior

    I think your friend is right.
    If I posted something in a public forum that was questionable due to a lack of judgment or understanding, I would much rather have a friend say something to me privately than to use the same public forum to try to correct me.
     
  24. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Like the conversations we have all the time on PB? If you say something in conversation in front of folks that is an error (and obvious exception to one's confession of faith) a response from someone would be natural to inform that person and those who just heard what was said. Same goes in a public discussion forum. He needs to get over it and spend more time working on his confessional stance than getting all defensive about how the grievousness of his statements was brought to his attention.:2cents:

     
  25. TimV

    TimV Puritanboard Botanist

    Or maybe the better question is how obligatory is it to qualify one's appreciation of a Christian by pointing out short comings.
     
  26. Tripel

    Tripel Puritan Board Senior

    Ditto.

    I don't know the full context of this scenario with Rob's friend, but from the little that is described it doesn't sound like such a bad thing. I too wish more Christians were like Tebow.
     
  27. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member


    You might benefit from this discourse in Edward Fisher's book, 'The Marrow of Modern Divinity'.

    There are such things as works of necessity. Things that are permissible for the sustenance of life are okay. NFL football is not in the list of necessity for sustenance of life in my estimation. I am not so sure what to make of your comment about sanctimonious drabble. Are you accusing Sabbatarians of Sanctimonious Drabble because they believe that there is a line that is to be drawn concerning what is permissible and not permissible?
     
  28. py3ak

    py3ak They're stalling and plotting against me Staff Member

    That's some charitable language. There are two other issues with this remark. One is that being a sinner oneself does not mean others aren’t, or that they can’t be called out for it. The same prophet who rebuked Jeroboam for his altar disobeyed the word of the Lord and got killed by a lion. If we could only rebuke where we are perfect, well then, you couldn’t have rebuked anyone for “sanctimonious drabble.” The other is that works of necessity are permitted; and certain matters of infrastructure and security are necessary (if not strictly to being, still to well-being): but sports are unnecessary by definition.
     
  29. toddpedlar

    toddpedlar Iron Dramatist Staff Member

    1) Any basic reformed discussion of the Sabbath includes provision for the providers of necessary basic services like electricity, water and gas (the internet is questionable perhaps). This has been hashed and rehashed myriad times on the PB and elsewhere. No need to dredge it up again, as it's a non-starter.

    2) Are you seriously arguing that those who watch Tim Tebow play football on the Lord's day compel him to do so? There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever to be made between emergency services workers honorably serving the public on the Lord's Day and athletes breaking the 4th commandment. NONE. Your rhetorical attempt lacks both logic and reason.

    And more seriously:

    [MODERATOR] Characterization of the debate about NFL football as a Sabbath-breaking activity as "sanctimonious drabble" is not acceptable. The position of the confessions is clear, and characterizing adherence to it as "sanctimonious"? You should know better. No more, please. [/MODERATOR]
     
  30. TimV

    TimV Puritanboard Botanist

    Randy are you really good with that?


    ? The fact that you call firing up the internet on Sunday questionable shows there's a lot of room for bringing the subject up again. You're either buying electricity for something you don't need or you aren't, is my take on it. If there's any question you can go outside and watch the meter turn.
     
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