What eschatological interpretation do you believe?

[etexas]

Idealist, Partial Preterist, Amillenialist.

Amen dear brother. Holding the amill view is strange for me in that while I am convinced, but not dogmatic, it is correct I find myself hoping that the postmill or the Dispensational rapture stuff were somehow true.

You know.....there is a little part of me....that hopes the Dispensational rapture thing is true as well.

 

[RamistThomist]

Idealist, Partial Preterist, Amillenialist.

Amen dear brother. Holding the amill view is strange for me in that while I am convinced, but not dogmatic, it is correct I find myself hoping that the postmill or the Dispensational rapture stuff were somehow true.

You know.....there is a little part of me....that hopes the Dispensational rapture thing is true as well.

Indeed, but not all raptures are Dispensational. Amillennialists hold to a "anytime return of Christ." Historic premils sort of hold to it.

 

[etexas]

Amen dear brother. Holding the amill view is strange for me in that while I am convinced, but not dogmatic, it is correct I find myself hoping that the postmill or the Dispensational rapture stuff were somehow true.

You know.....there is a little part of me....that hopes the Dispensational rapture thing is true as well.

Indeed, but not all raptures are Dispensational. Amillennialists hold to a "anytime return of Christ." Historic premils sort of hold to it.

Man I have a LOT to learn!

 

[RamistThomist]

You know.....there is a little part of me....that hopes the Dispensational rapture thing is true as well.

Indeed, but not all raptures are Dispensational. Amillennialists hold to a "anytime return of Christ." Historic premils sort of hold to it.

Man I have a LOT to learn!

And that can be a very fun experience

 

[JoeRe4mer]

Pan-millenialist, it will all pan out in the end.

LOL that was funny!

I am myself trying to figure out where I stand on all this.

 

[MrMerlin777]

Idealist, Partial Preterist, Amillenialist.

Amen dear brother. Holding the amill view is strange for me in that while I am convinced, but not dogmatic, it is correct I find myself hoping that the postmill or the Dispensational rapture stuff were somehow true.

Yep, Part of me hopes the same.

 

[Dr Mike Kear]

I'm a combo of partial preterism and Idealism.

That's me, too. I've been influenced by Gentry and Kik and DeMar and others on the Orthodox Preterist side, but I love the idealist applications as well and wouldn't want to do without those applications.

One interesting side note is that I've read PPs who hold to the early date for Revelation and I've read PPs who hold to the late date, I've read PPs who are amillennialists and PPs who are postmillennialists. I would agree with what Jaymin said above, that preterism and idealism especially are hermeneutical tools one would use in finding his way to an eschatological position.

 

[KMK]

The thing I like about Idealism is that you don't have to have an opinion about the date of Revelation. Both sides (early and late) have very interesting arguments. Has anyone read "HORAE APOCALYPTICAE", by E.B. Elliott?

 

[MrMerlin777]

I'm a combo of partial preterism and Idealism.

That's me, too. I've been influenced by Gentry and Kik and DeMar and others on the Orthodox Preterist side, but I love the idealist applications as well and wouldn't want to do without those applications.

One interesting side note is that I've read PPs who hold to the early date for Revelation and I've read PPs who hold to the late date, I've read PPs who are amillennialists and PPs who are postmillennialists. I would agree with what Jaymin said above, that preterism and idealism especially are hermeneutical tools one would use in finding his way to an eschatological position.

I've been influenced mostly by Hendricksen.

 

[shelly]

I've no idea. I'll know how it ends once it's over.

Just in case we're stuck here and things get real bad we'll be prepared.(think Y2K on a grander scale) There could always be nuclear war before it's all over. I'm a bit of a pessimist.

I'm starting to look forward to heaven; nothing can go wrong with my life once I get there. That sounds pretty selfish, but I'm pretty wore out with life. I'd like a rest.

In short, one day it'll all be over and I'll be glad of it.

 

[ANT]

Here's a question maybe someone can answer ...

Before I voted, I looked at the poll results and it showed the names of which people voted for which position.

After I voted, it was just numbers and pecentages ... no names.

How come you can view who voted for what, but only before you yourself votes?

This has puzzled me for many polls now ....

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Here's a question maybe someone can answer ...

Before I voted, I looked at the poll results and it showed the names of which people voted for which position.

After I voted, it was just numbers and pecentages ... no names.

How come you can view who voted for what, but only before you yourself votes?

This has puzzled me for many polls now ....

Anthony -- Try clicking on the actual numbers. That should show who voted.

 

[Herald]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to review an eschatological glossary. I understand preterist, but the others I always have to look up.

I think almost everyone is a partial preterist to some extent. Certainly the prophecies pointing to the fall of Jerusalem were fulfilled. And the prophecies in Daniel are spectacular in their unfolding. At least to that extent, I'd be surprised if someone claimed that they did not think such prophecies had already been fulfilled.

Vic - I'm with you. Additionally I no longer hold to a pre-trib rapture, but I'm still sympathetic to a 1000 year millennium. What does that make me? I have no idea. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Me Died Blue]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to review an eschatological glossary. I understand preterist, but the others I always have to look up.

I think almost everyone is a partial preterist to some extent. Certainly the prophecies pointing to the fall of Jerusalem were fulfilled. And the prophecies in Daniel are spectacular in their unfolding. At least to that extent, I'd be surprised if someone claimed that they did not think such prophecies had already been fulfilled.

Vic - I'm with you. Additionally I no longer hold to a pre-trib rapture, but I'm still sympathetic to a 1000 year millennium. What does that make me? I have no idea. Ignorance is bliss.

I'm still largely ignorant on many of these eschatological issues myself, but that sounds like historic premill.

 

[etexas]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to review an eschatological glossary. I understand preterist, but the others I always have to look up.

I think almost everyone is a partial preterist to some extent. Certainly the prophecies pointing to the fall of Jerusalem were fulfilled. And the prophecies in Daniel are spectacular in their unfolding. At least to that extent, I'd be surprised if someone claimed that they did not think such prophecies had already been fulfilled.

Vic - I'm with you. Additionally I no longer hold to a pre-trib rapture, but I'm still sympathetic to a 1000 year millennium. What does that make me? I have no idea. Ignorance is bliss.

I'm still largely ignorant on many of these eschatological issues myself, but that sounds like historic premill.

Another silly question, is the historic premil position totally in conflict with Reformed theology. I ask this a a man who is still trying to grapple with finding a position.

 

[Coram Deo]

Absolutely NOT.......

We Historic PreMills are..

Fully Covenantal
The Church is Spiritual Israel and heirs according to the promise of Abraham
Post Tribulational
1 Second Coming
1 General Judgment
Millennial is for the Church not for the Jews.....

Vic - I'm with you. Additionally I no longer hold to a pre-trib rapture, but I'm still sympathetic to a 1000 year millennium. What does that make me? I have no idea. Ignorance is bliss.

I'm still largely ignorant on many of these eschatological issues myself, but that sounds like historic premill.

Another silly question, is the historic premil position totally in conflict with Reformed theology. I ask this a a man who is still trying to grapple with finding a position.

 

[Bladestunner316]

I voted Hsitoricism cause thats what Ive been leaning towards, or at least the one that has me most interested.

 

[etexas]

Absolutely NOT.......

We Historic PreMills are..

Fully Covenantal
The Church is Spiritual Israel and heirs according to the promise of Abraham
Post Tribulational
1 Second Coming
1 General Judgment
Millennial is for the Church not for the Jews.....

I'm still largely ignorant on many of these eschatological issues myself, but that sounds like historic premill.

Another silly question, is the historic premil position totally in conflict with Reformed theology. I ask this a a man who is still trying to grapple with finding a position.

Thank you Brother...I like that answer....it is very cohesive...and Biblical...as I seek my position I will take this one seriously into consideration....esp. since it is one of the few positions I know much about anyway, what do you recomend me reading defending and understanding this from a Reformed perspective?

 

[Me Died Blue]

Thank you Brother...I like that answer....it is very cohesive...and Biblical...as I seek my position I will take this one seriously into consideration....esp. since it is one of the few positions I know much about anyway, what do yo recomend me reading defending and understanding this from a Reformed perspective?

George Eldon Ladd is probably the most well-known and even well-respected defender of this position. As Michael said, though in the minority, it is one of the basic eschatological positions Reformed theologians have historically held. The other two are amillennialism and historic postmillennialism, the former seeing no actual millennial period and viewing the final judgment as the next event in redemptive history, and the latter (as held by many of the Puritans) seeing a literal 1000-year millennium of large conversion and sanctification on the earth and only then the return of Christ and final judgment occurring. There is also what has now come to be commonly called the "theonomic postmillennial" view, which is largely identical with historic postmill except that it does not view the millennium as a literal 1000 years, but only a large period of unknown timespan - although one conceivably would not of course have to hold to theonomy in order to have a postmill position that views the millennium as an indefinite length of time.

Rejecting Dispensationalism, those are the basic three/four millennial positions - and as has been noted in this thread, the distinction between partial preterism, historicism, futurism and idealism (rejecting hyper-preterism) are somewhat different issues, having more to do with one's broad hermeneutic of the eschatological events as a whole - and while it will of course be true that people of certain millennial positions often tend more toward certain eschatological hermeneutics than others, there is no innate, necessary tie between either view within the two categories, and indeed there is often variation in the correspondence of such held views.

 

[javajedi]

I selected "Idealism" as that's what Amill is usually tied to.
I would also say, 'partial preterist' as some things are obviously tied to AD70 and therefore, past.

 

[Coram Deo]

Your Welcome brother.... As Me_Died_Blue said Ladd is a great source to get information on the topic and I do have all his books on the subject, but I also really like these other two book I am going to recommend....

They are pretty exhaustive regarding the issues of the rapture, second coming, and millennial period from a Historic Premill view point.....

1. The PostTribulational Rapture of the Church by Bruce Tucker 356 pages
2. Of The Last Days: Listen I Tell You A Mystery by Richard Perry 270 pages

There is very little that I could find that I disagree with in those books... I am not sure I can recommend Perry's other books but this one is solid......

Enjoy,
Coram Deo,
Michael

Absolutely NOT.......

We Historic PreMills are..

Fully Covenantal
The Church is Spiritual Israel and heirs according to the promise of Abraham
Post Tribulational
1 Second Coming
1 General Judgment
Millennial is for the Church not for the Jews.....

Another silly question, is the historic premil position totally in conflict with Reformed theology. I ask this a a man who is still trying to grapple with finding a position.

Thank you Brother...I like that answer....it is very cohesive...and Biblical...as I seek my position I will take this one seriously into consideration....esp. since it is one of the few positions I know much about anyway, what do yo recomend me reading defending and understanding this from a Reformed perspective?

 

[KMK]

What are my choices if I am convinced of the 'Two Age' view?

 

[RamistThomist]

What are my choices if I am convinced of the 'Two Age' view?

As long as the bible isn't put on a Two-Age procrustean bed, most any non-Dispensational position will work with it.

 

[clstamper]

You guys define the eschatology spectrum by 20th Century debates. The major historic divisions are chiliasts and anti-chiliasts. The big questions are: (a) Is there a literal millennium, in which Jesus will (visibly) reign on earth for 1,000 years? (b) Do you expect the Second Coming during your lifetime?

 

[KMK]

What are my choices if I am convinced of the 'Two Age' view?

As long as the bible isn't put on a Two-Age procrustean bed, most any non-Dispensational position will work with it.

By 'procrustean' are you refering to an arbitrary disregard for a possible 'overlap' of the two ages?

 

[danmpem]

I'm a little confused with some of the lingo here. I understand, for the most part, the different major views of eschatology, but some of the titles here I am not familiar with. Would this be an accurate translation of the terms?
Futurism - Amillennialism
Historicism - Historic Premillennialism
Idealism - Postmillennialism

 

[danmpem]

You guys define the eschatology spectrum by 20th Century debates. The major historic divisions are chiliasts and anti-chiliasts. The big questions are: (a) Is there a literal millennium, in which Jesus will (visibly) reign on earth for 1,000 years? (b) Do you expect the Second Coming during your lifetime?

I agree with your points. In regards to part b, I truly believe most biblically-minded Christians would agree that:

a. We are commanded to live believing in our blood and gut and heart that the Second Coming could happen in our lifetime - or even in the next five minutes.
b. Many of the prophecies that are to be fulfilled may be fulfilled unknowingly to many believers (i.e. a premillennialist would see a fulfilled prophecy rather differently than a partial preterist), so even if one believes there are still things that need to happen in this world before the Second Coming happens, all Christians must live with the humility that the Lord may return eminently.

 

[RamistThomist]

I'm a little confused with some of the lingo here. I understand, for the most part, the different major views of eschatology, but some of the titles here I am not familiar with. Would this be an accurate translation of the terms?
Futurism - Amillennialism
Historicism - Historic Premillennialism
Idealism - Postmillennialism

Futurism = mostly premillennialism
Historicism = mostly Reformed postmillennialism, some amillennialism
Idealism = mostly amillennialism.

 

[holyfool33]

futurism I at one point studied the Idealist interpretation but feel that it is too easily manipulated by the interpter as opposed to taking the word for what the word said in there but that has more to do with hermeneutics then an interpretive viewpoint on prophecy

 

[holyfool33]

No Left Behindists here? Who would've thought.

Count me among the "Left Behindists"