What did Jesus die for?

[PuritanCovenanter]

I was informed that Jesus only atoned for sins committed and not our sin nature. I contended that He atoned for both.

This person quoted some verses in Romans and 1Peter that said Jesus atoned for our sins. (Plural)

I then showed him Ephesians 2 and 1 Corinthians 15:56,57.
sin is singular in Corinthians.

Anyone know any verses that show Jesus died for our sin nature also?

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Rom. 5:12-21. All that He represented were redeemed from everything they lost in Adam.

The sin nature is a judgment on us for the imputed sin of Adam. If Christ redeemed us from Adam's sin, then he also redeems us from the consequences of that sin, hence the sin nature. Hence also, the grounds for regeneration and union with Christ, to be renewed after His image.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

This is what he said

puritancovenanter,

If you are tempted to lie, is it a sin? Or is it only a sin when you decide to lie? or when you lie?
Show me the scripture that tells us that Jesus died for our sin nature.
We are condemned for our sin. David says ...
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
and later in Romans 4...
21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22And therefore it was imputed to him[Abraham] for righteousness.
23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

We no longer bear sin, it no longer is held to our account. It is not imputed to us.

mikew.


This is what I replied Mike's question

If you are tempted to lie, is it a sin?

My answer

The temptation is not sin, but a persons desire to lie would be.

Mike's question
Or is it only a sin when you decide to lie? or when you lie?
Actual lying is the completion of lust or inward sin (or inordinate affection for something....the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life) Remember Jesus telling us inward desire is sin in the Sermon on the Mount.

Jam 1:14,15) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The problem is we are born in this death that inclines our heart toward sin. Our sin nature rules our lives. This would not be conquered or overcome without the the atonement. Read Ephesians 2 and tell me you don't see this. Is not this death the one that needs to be healed for transgressions which we inherit from our forefathers?

(1Co 15:56,57) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice sin is singular.


Good question though, I will look at it a little more deeper.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Thanks for the Romans 5 passage Pat.

 

[smallbeans]

I think Patrick is right above. I'd just add also the Patristic emphasis on the incarnation as somehow redeeming human nature. The idea being that God takes human nature and renews it, and then by union with Christ we share in that renewed humanity.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Okay, Some more help please. I believe Jesus died for our sin nature also. I am going to have to go look and see if any of my books have some help. Anyways here is what Mike responded back with.

PC,

You quoted James...

Jam 1:14,15) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

First there is the lust, or the desire. Then, and AFTER then when that desire or lust has concieved does it bring forth sin.

The desire is there. He is drawn away by it. It concieves, or it gives birth to sin, then when done [concieving, a process], it brings death. The wages of sin is death.

What seperates us from God is how we act and live if we do so without holiness. That is sin. That is what we are condemned for, our sins. That is why Adam was kicked from the garden, he sinned. He was not told that in the day thou desirest it you will die, BUT, in the day you eat of it you shall die.

Sin is singular in 1st Cor s quoted because each sin deserves death. maybe like if you are fatally allergic to bee stings, one sting you die. What hope is there for you if you get multiple stings?

Sin gets it strength from the Law because the Law reflects God's requirements, and His holiness. Judicially then, when we sin, we break the law, we stand condemned before God.

Read Romans from chapter one through chapter 3. Where does it condemn us for the sin nature? Nowhere, only for sinning. "those who do these things deserve death".

post 213...
The death passed onto us all BECAUSE Romans 5:`12b: and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

The wages of sin is death. Wages are what we work for. Did we work for the sin of Adam or inherit something from Adam?

The soul that sins shall die. Were we souls when Adam sinned? No. What happened to Adam when he ate of the fruit? Gen 3...

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Their eyes were opened, they knew good from evil. They were no longer ignorant of right and wrong.

Now if Christ had atoned for our sin nature, and took that on the cross [as well as our sins] then why are our sins as far from the east to west from us, but our sin nature is still present with us?

maybe he did atone in some way for our sin nature, BUT the Bible speaks only of Him atoning for our sins. Should we go where the Word does not?

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by puritancovenanter
Now if Christ had atoned for our sin nature, and took that on the cross [as well as our sins] then why are our sins as far from the east to west from us, but our sin nature is still present with us?

Sanctification.

maybe he did atone in some way for our sin nature, BUT the Bible speaks only of Him atoning for our sins. Should we go where the Word does not?

The Bibles speaks that more is redeemed than just the guilt of our sin but also the corruption of sin. Read Romans 6 and 8 and 1 Cor. 15. And the complete redemption of body and soul was accomplished in Christ. It is applied through the Spirit. Just because it doesn't all happen at once and our sin nature lingers, doesn't mean it wasn't covered. If it all happened at once, then we would be in heaven right now. I think your friend is simply trying to hard. What are his doctrinal beliefs? Does he claimed to be Reformed?

[Edited on 4-22-2005 by puritansailor]

 

[andreas]

You asked what did Jesus die for?The reason is given to us,

"For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.Romans 14:9

That he might be Lord,both of the dead and of the living,the dead(those who do not know God)and of the living(those that are born again).
andreas.

 

[turmeric]

What separates us from God is how we act and live if we do so without holiness. That is sin.That is what we are condemned for, our sins.
The wages of sin is death. Wages are what we work for. Did we work for the sin of Adam...

This appears to be a somewhat perfectionistic view of sin.

[Now if Christ had atoned for our sin nature, and took that on the cross [as well as our sins] then why are our sins as far from the east to west from us, but our sin nature is still present with us?
maybe he did atone in some way for our sin nature, BUT the Bible speaks only of Him atoning for our sins. Should we go where the Word does not?

I wonder how he defines "sin nature". This is usually a dispie term for indwelling sin. They think we have 2 natures in us and we have to referee between them, and that's how we avoid sinning.

[Edited on 4-24-2005 by turmeric]

 

[Augusta]

Sounds like he has been reading Finney. We who are "in Christ" are not longer begotten of Adam. We are now born again and are begotten of the Holy Spirit into Christ. We are a new creation.

1 Peter 1:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Cor. 5:
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

We are no longer under the curse.

Galations 3:
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"[h]),

14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Revelation 22:

1 And he showed me a pure[a] river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.

4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.

5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

[Edited on 4-24-2005 by Augusta]

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Sorry for bothering you. I didn't read Mikes reply to me very well. He must be a major arminian with a very poor view of soteriology. Especially the sanctification part. Some days my poor brain just doesn't work. Maybe it's all the medicine I take. Some have tried to give me that as a possible problem for my lapses. Sometimes it just seems like I can't connect the dots. Okay now. Thanks.