What actions caused the Reformation?

[JohnGill]

I'm not sure exactly where to put this thread so I put it in general.

What caused the Reformation? By this I mean what actions were taken by Christians that God used to bring about the Reformation.

What would you consider the top ten.

I ask because my church is praying for 'revival'. They're basing the idea of just getting together for prayer on an earlier revival which started with a prayer meeting. There is no getting back to Bible doctrine. There is no conforming of everything in our individual, family, and church lives to the standards set forth in scripture. So I would like to know what actions are considered to be the sine qua non of the Reformation.

If this was dealt with before, then I'd just appreciate a link.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Neogillist]

I'm not sure exactly where to put this thread so I put it in general.

What caused the Reformation? By this I mean what actions were taken by Christians that God used to bring about the Reformation.

What would you consider the top ten.

I ask because my church is praying for 'revival'. They're basing the idea of just getting together for prayer on an earlier revival which started with a prayer meeting. There is no getting back to Bible doctrine. There is no conforming of everything in our individual, family, and church lives to the standards set forth in scripture. So I would like to know what actions are considered to be the sine qua non of the Reformation.

If this was dealt with before, then I'd just appreciate a link.

Thanks for the help!

I think you need to join a Reformed or a Reformed Baptist church, brother. Revivalism, especially of the nineteeth century style is a distraction from the gospel and the natural means of church growth. People tend to get carried away looking for 'action' rather than seeking God's glory. The result is a loss of Christ-centeredness as God's glory is no longer sought above all things. I myself was a closet calvinist for 2-3 years in a Methodist church when I finally realized I was being disobedient to God in stobbornly trying to reverse the tide.

In some sense, the Reformation was by far the greatest revival that took place in church history as you point out. Jonathan Edwards' Second Great Awakening was also a godly movement, but much of what came afterwards was no more than some shallow emotionalism and activism that gave rise to many heresies and false movements (as the National Holiness Movement, and the Pentecostal movement).

 

[JohnGill]

I'm not sure exactly where to put this thread so I put it in general.

What caused the Reformation? By this I mean what actions were taken by Christians that God used to bring about the Reformation.

What would you consider the top ten.

I ask because my church is praying for 'revival'. They're basing the idea of just getting together for prayer on an earlier revival which started with a prayer meeting. There is no getting back to Bible doctrine. There is no conforming of everything in our individual, family, and church lives to the standards set forth in scripture. So I would like to know what actions are considered to be the sine qua non of the Reformation.

If this was dealt with before, then I'd just appreciate a link.

Thanks for the help!

I think you need to join a Reformed or a Reformed Baptist church, brother. Revivalism, especially of the nineteeth century style is a distraction from the gospel and the natural means of church growth. People tend to get carried away looking for 'action' rather than seeking God's glory. The result is a loss of Christ-centeredness as God's glory is no longer sought above all things. I myself was a closet calvinist for 2-3 years in a Methodist church when I finally realized I was being disobedient to God in stobbornly trying to reverse the tide.

In some sense, the Reformation was by far the greatest revival that took place in church history as you point out. Jonathan Edwards' Second Great Awakening was also a godly movement, but much of what came afterwards was no more than some shallow emotionalism and activism that gave rise to many heresies and false movements (as the National Holiness Movement, and the Pentecostal movement).

There are no Reformed churches of any stripe in Fairbanks, AK. The pastor claims to be a Calvinist. I am hoping to show him that what we need is reform, not revival, which has already come on the day of Pentecost.

Otherwise I'd already be in a different church.

 

[Pergamum]

Nothing wrong with being action-oriented - if your doctrine is right.


The Cross and not the cushion symbolizes our faith and the arena instead of the armchair.


Godly men did take action and this did bring about the Reformation through the grace of God. Here's a quick 7 ways in which men took action to enact the Reformation:

--They published tracts,
--In secret they translated the Scriptures and smuggled them across national borders,
--They prayed,
--They trained other pastors and sent them into hard areas (Calvin trained 1,000s that sneak back into France),
--They hid and housed religious refugees and freely gave even in poverty,
--They began to write an improve their own churches with reforms,
--They were willing to suffer death for their cause.

 

[BJClark]

JohnGill;

What caused the Reformation? By this I mean what actions were taken by Christians that God used to bring about the Reformation.

They read the Bible, they studied it, considered what it said, gained a fear of God, realized how it applied to them personally and began living it and preaching it from the Pulpits.

that is where revival starts, reading and studying the Scriptures, gaining a fear of God as you realize this applies to you as an individual.

 

[TheocraticMonarchist]

Nothing wrong with being action-oriented - if your doctrine is right.


The Cross and not the cushion symbolizes our faith and the arena instead of the armchair.


Godly men did take action and this did bring about the Reformation through the grace of God. Here's a quick 7 ways in which men took action to enact the Reformation:

--They published tracts,
--In secret they translated the Scriptures and smuggled them across national borders,
--They prayed,
--They trained other pastors and sent them into hard areas (Calvin trained 1,000s that sneak back into France),
--They hid and housed religious refugees and freely gave even in poverty,
--They began to write an improve their own churches with reforms,
--They were willing to suffer death for their cause.

That’s it?

You mean God did it, and they just prayed , lived a christian life, and taught the truth? Do you actually expect us to believe that's how the reformation was started?

What about vision casting, and the seeker sensitive parking lot, and the friendly door greeters, and the hyper emotional driven music, and the 3 steps to salvation repeat this prayer after me cards, and that one book on ecclesiology entitled 'Corporate Marketing Leadership 101'?

Do you really mean to imply that they used none of these methods?

 

[Kim G]

That’s it?

You mean God did it, and they just prayed , lived a christian life, and taught the truth? Do you actually expect us to believe that's how the reformation was started?

What about vision casting, and the seeker sensitive parking lot, and the friendly door greeters, and the hyper emotional driven music, and the 3 steps to salvation repeat this prayer after me cards, and that one book on ecclesiology entitled 'Corporate Marketing Leadership 101'?

Do you really mean to imply that they used none of these methods?

Who'd uh thunk it?

 

[jwithnell]

The main two reasons that come to mind:
1. It was the time of God's choosing
2. Luther (and later others) returned to the scriptures as the rule for faith and practice

What can we do?
1. Pray for the church and the pure teaching of the gospel
2. Wait for God's timing ...

This may sound too simple, but in all truth, I can't say I am as faithful in praying for the church as I should be ...

 

[DMcFadden]

Culturally/Politically
* Dissatisfaction within Germany over relations with Rome vis a vis the Holy Roman Empire.
* The Elector's support for Luther's efforts
* The "new" technology of the printing press and its utilization by the forces of Luther to flood the market with pro-Reform pieces
* Pope Leo's corruption and sprendthrift ways necessitating the massive sale of indulgences coupled with the financial needs of Albert of Mainz leading to the commissioning of J. Tetzel to market indulgences in Germany

Theologically
* Publication of the Erasmus Greek New Testament (1516)
* Translation of the Bible into vernacular German (NT in 1522)
* "Hier stehe ich und kann nicht anders" by Luther at Diet of Worms and the publication of the Exsurge Domine bull that followed it.

 

[JohnGill]

I've been listening to J. P. Morecraft's series on the Distinctives of the Reformed Faith. These have given me some ideas as to what is necessary for reform in church.

1) Preaching on election & predestination
2) A proper understanding of the Doctrine of God
3) The Sovereignty of God (similar to above but different)
4) The low estate of man because of sin before an holy God
5) All that God does he does for his own glory
6) The actions of the Trinity in salvation
7) A going back to the Doctrines of Grace
8) Putting an end to idolatry by no longer tolerating false conceptions of God

I haven't finished the series, but it is giving me some good ideas.

Oh, I forgot this one, burn every copy of the Living Bible. He said it.

Understand that I am not discounting prayer. I am discounting Finney style revivalism, which is what my church is going after. The idea of just praying for revival while encouraging false doctrine concerning the nature of God I do not believe will bring any revival from God.

 

[Pergamum]

Nothing wrong with being action-oriented - if your doctrine is right.


The Cross and not the cushion symbolizes our faith and the arena instead of the armchair.


Godly men did take action and this did bring about the Reformation through the grace of God. Here's a quick 7 ways in which men took action to enact the Reformation:

--They published tracts,
--In secret they translated the Scriptures and smuggled them across national borders,
--They prayed,
--They trained other pastors and sent them into hard areas (Calvin trained 1,000s that sneak back into France),
--They hid and housed religious refugees and freely gave even in poverty,
--They began to write an improve their own churches with reforms,
--They were willing to suffer death for their cause.

That’s it?

You mean God did it, and they just prayed , lived a christian life, and taught the truth? Do you actually expect us to believe that's how the reformation was started?

What about vision casting, and the seeker sensitive parking lot, and the friendly door greeters, and the hyper emotional driven music, and the 3 steps to salvation repeat this prayer after me cards, and that one book on ecclesiology entitled 'Corporate Marketing Leadership 101'?

Do you really mean to imply that they used none of these methods?

Ha!

Yes, if persecution and hardship hit like it did during the dawn of the Reformation, then these 10,000 member mega-churches will dwindle to about 10 members in a fortnight.

 

[JohnGill]

Nothing wrong with being action-oriented - if your doctrine is right.


The Cross and not the cushion symbolizes our faith and the arena instead of the armchair.


Godly men did take action and this did bring about the Reformation through the grace of God. Here's a quick 7 ways in which men took action to enact the Reformation:

--They published tracts,
--In secret they translated the Scriptures and smuggled them across national borders,
--They prayed,
--They trained other pastors and sent them into hard areas (Calvin trained 1,000s that sneak back into France),
--They hid and housed religious refugees and freely gave even in poverty,
--They began to write an improve their own churches with reforms,
--They were willing to suffer death for their cause.

That’s it?

You mean God did it, and they just prayed , lived a christian life, and taught the truth? Do you actually expect us to believe that's how the reformation was started?

What about vision casting, and the seeker sensitive parking lot, and the friendly door greeters, and the hyper emotional driven music, and the 3 steps to salvation repeat this prayer after me cards, and that one book on ecclesiology entitled 'Corporate Marketing Leadership 101'?

Do you really mean to imply that they used none of these methods?

You forgot, How I Raised Myself From Failure to Success In Selling...er I mean soul-winning.

 

[Pergamum]

Of course there is the ol' Calvinist counter-punch, "We're trusting the Lord to save souls and bring folks to our church even thou we sit on our duffs, don't greet the visitors nor even have a readable church sign out front."

We who have the truth ought to be more active with it.

 

[KMK]

Couldn't the invention of the printing press be considered a major factor in bringing about the Reformation?

 

[Pergamum]

The developing of a larger middle class, invention of the printing press, etc, are all very non-religious factors that did in fact help contribute to the fertile ground in which the seed of the Reformation grew. Humanism and interest in sources of knowledge besides Rome (the Greeks, etc) helped plant seeds.

The most major factor I think is the unrest of the common people. The Reformation was a "people's movement". The church owned the land, the serfs served the land and little fiefdoms developed. Catholicism was not just a religion, for most folks were not that religious it seems (they were largely ignorant), but their economic life was lsometimes largely controlled by the church and its officials. A growing national consciousness and a rising dissatisfaction of serfdom increased the popularity of the Reformation teachers who bucked the visibly corrupt powers of Rome. The ground was ripe for a reformist movement that challenged Rome, and Protestantism fit the bill. No wonder that newly Lutheran Germany suffered the peasant revolt - the masses thought that such a revolt was just a logical outworking of the Reformation.

 

[FrielWatcher]

Ha!

Yes, if persecution and hardship hit like it did during the dawn of the Reformation, then these 10,000 member mega-churches will dwindle to about 10 members in a fortnight.

I often wondered what would happen to that "church" if Joel Osteen began preaching like Piper or Edwards or Calvin?

Have you seen the movie "Luther"? It takes quite a bit to follow it but gives a good synopsis of the politics that fell into place during that time. Not by any means an all-in-all explanation but a reference.

 

[Pergamum]

I pity Osteen because he might just be living his best life now. Let's pray for these guys.

 

[TheocraticMonarchist]

Couldn't the invention of the printing press be considered a major factor in bringing about the Reformation?

Yes! It was the internet of its time. The net has been instrumental in my conversion from Pentecostalism to the Westminster Standards, and from what understand there is some sort of growth of Calvinism amongst young people right now. God is using the internet sermons by popular Reformed preachers like John Piper , R.C. Sproul and others .

 

[Ivan]

...the seeker sensitive parking lot...

I can just see John Calvin pulling into the church parking lot in his Renault!

 

[Ivan]

"Hier stehe ich und kann nicht anders" by Luther at Diet of Worms...

It would have been awesome to have been there the day he said that!

 

[Ivan]

Understand that I am not discounting prayer. I am discounting Finney style revivalism, which is what my church is going after. The idea of just praying for revival while encouraging false doctrine concerning the nature of God I do not believe will bring any revival from God.

Revivalism, no. God-sent revival, yes. The former does little to nothing. The latter...hold on to your seats!

 

[SolaScriptura]

I think it is telling how every response here has omitted the role of the civil authorities in getting the Reformation off the ground. In literally every nation I can think of, the civil authorities played a huge part in "protecting" the Reformation while it was still in the cradle. And the Reformers were not above or below (depending upon your perspective) of appealing to rising nationalistic sentiments to encourage support.

 

[N. Eshelman]

I think it is telling how every response here has omitted the role of the civil authorities in getting the Reformation off the ground. In literally every nation I can think of, the civil authorities played a huge part in "protecting" the Reformation while it was still in the cradle. And the Reformers were not above or below (depending upon your perspective) of appealing to rising nationalistic sentiments to encourage support.

Read the Reformed confessions on the role of the magistrate and you will see a much different idea than the American, almost Anabaptist views, that the church has aquired! (Example- look at the Belgic- I love it!)

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I would venture to say that the American view of the Magistrate is Anabaptist.

 

[JohnGill]

What actions should an individual church do in order to prepare itself for reform from God?

What factors must be changed in our society before we can expect another Reformation from God?

 

[JohnGill]

Found what I was looking for

Researching on REAL revivals versus Finney-esque I found a great sermon on the subject by Dr. Don Whitney entitled, The Means of Church Revival

He lists seven things that should always be done in a church. Especially when seeking Sovereignly wrought Revival from God.

1. Preaching
   a. Repentance & Sin
   b. Justification by Faith Alone
   c. Biblical Revival - Pentecost, The Reformation, The Great Awakening
2. Prayer for Revival
   a. Praying through the Scriptures, especially the Psalms
3. Pastoral Care
   a. Richard Baxter's The Reformed Pastor
4. Church Discipline
   a. Consistent Church Discipline
   b. Laney - A Guide to Church Discipline
5. Reformation Minded Leadership
   a. Church leadership that wants Reformation in Church
   b. Removal of those from leadership who do not want Reformation
6. Godly Leadership
   a. 1 Timothy 3; Titus 2
7. God Centered Worship
   a. Regulative Principle of Worship
   b. No robbing glory from God via 'special' music or other man-made things
   c. A focus on God from the beginning of the worship service until the end

 

[Pergamum]

I think it is telling how every response here has omitted the role of the civil authorities in getting the Reformation off the ground. In literally every nation I can think of, the civil authorities played a huge part in "protecting" the Reformation while it was still in the cradle. And the Reformers were not above or below (depending upon your perspective) of appealing to rising nationalistic sentiments to encourage support.

And this is the MAIN reason why we should stop dreaming of returning to some "Golden Age" of "Christendom" - the Christendom concept is dead and we can return to the pattern of the early church of being persecuted but not to the age of religious wars and civil magistrates punishing Anabaptists, etc.