I do not agree with him on this particular issue is all.
Traducianism vs. Creationism
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So God granted the power to generate and create souls to humans then?
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
We don't create; we procreate.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
My point is not that you should agree with him, necessarily. My point is that you don't understand the issues, and that you could benefit from studying them.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
It's more widespread, but that is different from being "traditional" or even correct.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
See what I said above. We are in Adam's loins seminally. Our souls aren't being generated. They are being passed along.
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RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Probably that Adam's sin was imputed to us and the guilt/darkening is federally applied.
Traducianists like Shedd believe in federalism, so that can't really be an objection. I don't think federalism alleviates the charge.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Shedd is a sheer literary delight. He is one of my top three. He's woefully unbalanced on some issues, but he is always a joy to read.
Shedd doesn't reference Strong. Strong does mention Shedd's debate with Beecher on eternal punishment.
Adam was created by God and was physically alive, and then God placed in him the soul, so would that not be the same for all humans then?
What did John Calvin hold with on this subject?
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Creationism
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
That's what you're trying to prove.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
Adam wasn't alive before he had a soul.
If the bodies of everyone after our first parents are not created by God immediately (but are the products of natural generation), why should we expect it to be otherwise with the soul?
Ask Mr. Religion
Flatly Unflappable
Shedd does not. Gomes, in the introductory materials of Shedd, refers to Strong a few times.
What were the main reasons he held to that view?
Due to the immaterial aspect of mankind, our immortal soul, has to come from a pre existing Eternal being, as mortal cannot generate immortal.
The 2 biggest reasons that leaped out to me in those links were the fact of God creating Adam to be physically alive, and then added to him the immaterial spiritual component, and also that Jesus being not tainted by the fall and having the sin nature requires the creation position it would seem.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
The traducianist holds that the immortal soul of the child is derived from the immortal soul of the parent.
Which parent though?
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
Traditionally, traducianists have said the father. However, I'm not sure that that's essential to the view. I'm willing to concede that it could come from either parent, or from both in some respect.
Note that traducianists have never claimed to understand the minute details of how the soul of of a child traduces from that of a parent. There's a great deal of mystery involved. Convinced by scripture and plain reason that his view is the correct one, the traducianist submits to the mystery. The secret things belong to the Lord.
Those holding to Creationism would see the scriptures teaching to us while humans can produce the material aspects of us, that it still takes God to create the immaterial aspect of us.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
He didn't go into it.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
We know that, but that's not an argument.
The part where only God can create would be.
The answer to how Jesus was born untainted and not corrupted by the Fall of Adam would seem to be where we find which of these 2 views fit the scriptures best.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
Nobody's arguing that men can create men. We're arguing about whether men beget men in their totality, or whether they only beget their bodies, while God creates the soul.
You should really try to understand these issues before you start opining about them.
I am just wondering whether material based humans can create immaterial based souls.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
They absolutely cannot create souls. They can't create bodies either.
Also, note that man has both a material and an immaterial part.
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