Paul vs. Gamaliel

[bookslover]

Our adult Sunday School class is watching a video series by Sinclair Ferguson. This morning, Ferguson pointed out something interesting. Paul had studied under Gamaliel, widely regarded at the time as one of Israel's greatest teachers. In the Book of Acts, Gamaliel advises the Jewish leaders regarding the Christians, in effect: "If what they do is from God, you could find yourselves fighting against God. But, if what they do is merely human, they're movement will eventually fizzle out. You should just leave them alone." (paraphrasing, obviously)

Ferguson pointed out that Paul's murderous rage against the Christians was so out of control that he was willing to defy the advice of his own great teacher, whom he otherwise held in great esteem. That hadn't occurred to me before.

No wonder it took Christ Himself, on the road to Damascus, to turn Paul around.

 

[Polanus1561]

Yes. I was just reading FF Bruce on Paul yesterday evening as well. He said Gamaliel was more of a patient guy in contrast to Paul

 

[arapahoepark]

Indeed. Meanwhile, I think Wright says something to the effect, "well Paul couldn't have possibly studied under Gamaliel since they are so different."
I think scholars have speculated that Paul may have been one of the unruly pupils Gamaliel talked about.

 

[iainduguid]

Indeed. Meanwhile, I think Wright says something to the effect, "well Paul couldn't have possibly studied under Gamaliel since they are so different."
I think scholars have speculated that Paul may have been one of the unruly pupils Gamaliel talked about.

That's a surprising comment for someone with as much teaching experience as Wright. I have fellow students who studied under the same professors as me whose paths have gone in very different directions from mine.

 

[arapahoepark]

That's a surprising comment for someone with as much teaching experience as Wright. I have fellow students who studied under the same professors as me whose paths have gone in very different directions from mine.

Indeed. I will post a relevant quote once I find it again among my books.

 

[ArminianOnceWas]

Indeed. I will post a relevant quote once I find it again among my books.

Indeed. Meanwhile, I think Wright says something to the effect, "well Paul couldn't have possibly studied under Gamaliel since they are so different."
I think scholars have speculated that Paul may have been one of the unruly pupils Gamaliel talked about.

I believe that integrity should demand that you retract your comment or post a quote. You said "think" and "effect" then you frame words in quotation marks. Of course, you don't identify which Wright you "think" made this statement to the "effect" although I believe it's inferred.

I'm hardly a Wright apologist, however, if you are referring to N.T. Wright in his Paul: A Biography, a more recent popular style work, treats Paul as a student of Gamaliel. In his more academic Paul and the Faithfulness of God, Wright doesn't dismiss the Paul/Gamaliel connection.

I'll thank you for a quote as I would find it interesting and helpful. Part of this issue is that with the Reformed critique of NTW, which has been justified (no pun), it's imperative to do so with his actual words, not with what we "think" we remember him saying/writing or inferring. I'd hardly want to sin by misrepresenting someone, and I know you feel the same.

 

[arapahoepark]

I believe that integrity should demand that you retract your comment or post a quote. You said "think" and "effect" then you frame words in quotation marks. Of course, you don't identify which Wright you "think" made this statement to the "effect" although I believe it's inferred.

I'm hardly a Wright apologist, however, if you are referring to N.T. Wright in his Paul: A Biography, a more recent popular style work, treats Paul as a student of Gamaliel. In his more academic Paul and the Faithfulness of God, Wright doesn't dismiss the Paul/Gamaliel connection.

I'll thank you for a quote as I would find it interesting and helpful. Part of this issue is that with the Reformed critique of NTW, which has been justified (no pun), it's imperative to do so with his actual words, not with what we "think" we remember him saying/writing or inferring. I'd hardly want to sin by misrepresenting someone, and I know you feel the same.

I had been meaning to reply but it escaped me.
You are correct. I have not read Wright's later works. I came across Wright saying Paul had a Shammaite understanding of things. The critical works like Indeed Has Paul Really Said took that as the implication, as did I, that Paul wasn't under Gamaliel since the latter was more of Hillelite, at least, in my reading.