Question on Romans 14.

[earl40]

I have read that in Romans 14 it is speaking of weak brothers who come out of a Jewish OT context. If so my question is was there ever a command to eat only vegetables?

"Romans 14:2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables."

 

[Peairtach]

Yes. In Genesis 2 there is such a command, though whether that is what motivated the weaker brothers at Rome is a question.

One could imagine someone with a weak conscience avoiding meat altogether, "in order to be on the safe side" of the OT food laws. I wonder if there is anything in the Talmud about avoiding meat altogether.

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[earl40]

Yes. In Genesis 2 there is such a command, though whether that is what motivated the weaker brothers at Rome is a question.

One could imagine someone with a weak conscience avoiding meat altogether, "in order to be on the safe side" of the OT food laws. I wonder if there is anything in the Talmud about avoiding meat altogether.

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Thank you Richard though I suspect Paul in Romans was not thinking of the command to not eat meat from Genesis 2. That would presuppose an almost unbelievably weak Jew who did not know how to prepare meat in a kosher fashion. I wonder if your second point may be correct in that the Talmud did hold great sway then, as it does now, among many Jews.

 

[Peairtach]

Yes. In Genesis 2 there is such a command, though whether that is what motivated the weaker brothers at Rome is a question.

One could imagine someone with a weak conscience avoiding meat altogether, "in order to be on the safe side" of the OT food laws. I wonder if there is anything in the Talmud about avoiding meat altogether.

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Thank you Richard though I suspect Paul in Romans was not thinking of the command to not eat meat from Genesis 2. That would presuppose an almost unbelievably weak Jew who did not know how to prepare meat in a kosher fashion. I wonder if your second point may be correct in that the Talmud did hold great sway then, as it does now, among many Jews.

It apparently wasn't codified then. I think it was called the Mishna, or Oral Law.

 

[KeithW]

I have read that in Romans 14 it is speaking of weak brothers who come out of a Jewish OT context. If so my question is was there ever a command to eat only vegetables?

And what was that Old Testament context? Keep reading in Romans 14 to find out.

Rom 14:14-23 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Regarding Genesis 2, keep reading...

Gen. 9:1-3 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

The Jews knew this command. So this would not have been about people who eat meat vs. people who are vegetarians. As Paul pointed out, Romans 14:2 was about "unclean" animals.

And Paul later speaks of not offending your weaker brother who has problem with another situation regarding meat.

1 Cor. 8:4-13 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

I hope these Scriptures help towards answering your question.

 

[earl40]

I have read that in Romans 14 it is speaking of weak brothers who come out of a Jewish OT context. If so my question is was there ever a command to eat only vegetables?

And what was that Old Testament context? Keep reading in Romans 14 to find out.

Rom 14:14-23 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Regarding Genesis 2, keep reading...

Gen. 9:1-3 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

The Jews knew this command. So this would not have been about people who eat meat vs. people who are vegetarians. As Paul pointed out, Romans 14:2 was about "unclean" animals.

And Paul later speaks of not offending your weaker brother who has problem with another situation regarding meat.

1 Cor. 8:4-13 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

I hope these Scriptures help towards answering your question.

I understand the issue with meat. The question is on vegetables or herbs which is in vs. 2. I agree the Jews knew that it was lawful to eat meat if it was clean and Kosher and Paul was saying that the Jewish weak converts had trouble with the idea all meat was proclaimed clean by God because of a lifetime of following the law. Now all the verses in Romans 14 go along with OT law except the idea that some of them thought eating herbs was what God wanted them to do which seems to be without warrant from the OT law.

The following is an edit.....I think vs. 2 is saying they eat herbs instead of unclean meat which is the conclusion I come to from the KJV. I wonder if there any merit to adding the word "only" as I read in some translations?

 

[Free Christian]

Hi Earl. From what I have read and understand, those who did not eat meat did so for fear of where they were inadvertently eating unclean meat or that which was offered to idols. Meat they did not know the origin of. So to play it safe ate only vegetables/herbs.

 

[earl40]

Hi Earl. From what I have read and understand, those who did not eat meat did so for fear of where they were inadvertently eating unclean meat or that which was offered to idols. Meat they did not know the origin of. So to play it safe ate only vegetables/herbs.

Of course you are correct. I was reading this verse from a 21st century midset.