Question in Genesis 13:10

[0isez]

Hi Brothers and Sisters!
I hope all is well. I have a question for you concerning Genesis 13:10
"And Lot lifted up his eyes and saw that the Jordan Valley was well watered everywhere like the Garden of the Lord...
When the Garden of the Lord is mentioned,is this?
1. Moses referring the reader back to earlier references to the garden in Genesis?
2. Mose's indicating that traces of the Garden still existed in Abraham's time and its former beauty was local common knowledge among the inhabitants (which would narrow down its true location) or...
3. Was this just Lot's imagination conjuring up remembered images of the Garden when he looked east?
Grammatically, Genesis is sometimes a tough read for me not knowing which tense to place such statements and whose perspective is represented.
Thanks ahead of time...In Him...Ken

 

[VictorBravo]

I dare say all the descendants of Noah had some sense of what was lost when Adam and Eve were expelled. It was always in the background, similar to that innate desire to always seeking home that most feel to this day.

I’m pretty sure Lot saw it and thought “that is like Eden.”

That urge is still with us. Look at how many products are marketed with “Eden” in their names.

 

[iainduguid]

Hi Ken,
Here's what I wrote on this passage in my forthcoming commentary on Genesis; it's important to note Lot's assessment that it was both "like the Garden of the Lord" (as he imagined it would have been) and like the land of Egypt (from where he and Abraham had just returned):

The Jordan valley is described as “like the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt” (Gen. 13:10). That may sound like a good place to choose to settle down, since the garden of the Lord was beautiful and Egypt was the place where there was no famine. Yet this superficially delightful description carries with it ominous undertones of spiritual danger. It was in the garden of the Lord that Lot’s first ancestors, Adam and Eve were tempted by the serpent and fell into sin (3:6). Like the builders of the tower of Babel (11:1-9), Lot thought to bypass the cherubim guarding the way back to God’s presence and to enjoy the benefits of a place resembling the garden of the Lord without the inconvenience of having to trust in the Lord of the garden.

Describing the land chosen by Lot as “like the land of Egypt” (Gen. 13:10) further reinforces the image of physical prosperity combined with spiritual danger. Abram and Lot had only just returned from Egypt, where they had prospered materially at the cost of endangering God’s promise. It appears that Lot would have been quite happy to go back there again. The danger of this attitude should not have been lost on the original readers of this account in the time of Moses, who had themselves had just emerged from captivity in Egypt and experienced its continuing attraction as well.[1] Finally, to get to this land Lot journeyed “eastward” (13:11), an ominous direction of travel in the book of Genesis (see 3:24; 4:16; 11:2).[2]

Genesis 13:10 adds parenthetically, “This was before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.” The fate of Sodom and Gomorrah had not yet been sealed, although their sin was already a well-known feature of their city (see Gen. 13:13). In choosing with his eyes and neglecting a fuller exploration of the facts, Lot entrusted his life to a dangerously flawed sense. The land that Lot was choosing for himself[3] was on the edge of the land promised to Abraham, if not actually outside it (see 13:12), while the people with whom he was choosing to live were wicked sinners, under God’s curse, rather than Abram, the bearer of the Lord’s blessing. It is no surprise that Lot’s life began to follow a downward trajectory from this moment onward, when the two of them separated (13:11).

---

[1] Duguid, “Hagar the Egyptian,” 419-21.
[2] Sailhamer, The Pentateuch as Narrative, 134.
[3] “Lot chose for himself” in Genesis 13:11 contrasts sharply with God’s word to Abram, “I give to you” in verse 15.

 

[cnartatez]

Hello Ken.

This are my thoughts on the passage:
1) There is a simile in: like the garden of the LORD, (So this would lead us to understand that was only a reference for the conception of something which was desired and expected in a good way).
2) There are other similarities for the reference to the land of Egypt (We know how this will develop further with the slavery of the Israelites).
3) I think the author it is going more deeply in the spiritual sight and our spiritual perspective of what we cant or can see with human eyes. Although we may think we have understanding, our eyes may deceive us many time. I think that would be a fair application of the text: a) Human Eyes Perspective and b) Spiritual Perspective.

I will quote from Lange referring the text:
Lot makes the worst choice, while he thinks that he has chosen well. For his worldly-mindedness, the sin in his choice, he was first punished through the plundering of his house, and his captivity in the war of the kings, which followed soon after his choice, and then through his fearful flight from Sodom, and the losses, misfortunes and crimes which were connected with it. Lange
My though on this is: "Beware with what you chose just contemplating the glitter and the shining of it"

God bless you in Christ!

 

[0isez]

I dare say all the descendants of Noah had some sense of what was lost when Adam and Eve were expelled. It was always in the background, similar to that innate desire to always seeking home that most feel to this day.

I’m pretty sure Lot saw it and thought “that is like Eden.”

That urge is still with us. Look at how many products are marketed with “Eden” in their names.

...So, the language used was suppose to relate to how and what Lot saw and imagined when he gazed east. This was the crux of my question...whose perspective are we reading that verse from when he says "Like the Garden of the Lord". Thanks for clearing that up, that was my estimation too.

 

[0isez]

Hi Ken,
Here's what I wrote on this passage in my forthcoming commentary on Genesis; it's important to note Lot's assessment that it was both "like the Garden of the Lord" (as he imagined it would have been) and like the land of Egypt (from where he and Abraham had just returned):

The Jordan valley is described as “like the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt” (Gen. 13:10). That may sound like a good place to choose to settle down, since the garden of the Lord was beautiful and Egypt was the place where there was no famine. Yet this superficially delightful description carries with it ominous undertones of spiritual danger. It was in the garden of the Lord that Lot’s first ancestors, Adam and Eve were tempted by the serpent and fell into sin (3:6). Like the builders of the tower of Babel (11:1-9), Lot thought to bypass the cherubim guarding the way back to God’s presence and to enjoy the benefits of a place resembling the garden of the Lord without the inconvenience of having to trust in the Lord of the garden.

Describing the land chosen by Lot as “like the land of Egypt” (Gen. 13:10) further reinforces the image of physical prosperity combined with spiritual danger. Abram and Lot had only just returned from Egypt, where they had prospered materially at the cost of endangering God’s promise. It appears that Lot would have been quite happy to go back there again. The danger of this attitude should not have been lost on the original readers of this account in the time of Moses, who had themselves had just emerged from captivity in Egypt and experienced its continuing attraction as well.[1] Finally, to get to this land Lot journeyed “eastward” (13:11), an ominous direction of travel in the book of Genesis (see 3:24; 4:16; 11:2).[2]

Genesis 13:10 adds parenthetically, “This was before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.” The fate of Sodom and Gomorrah had not yet been sealed, although their sin was already a well-known feature of their city (see Gen. 13:13). In choosing with his eyes and neglecting a fuller exploration of the facts, Lot entrusted his life to a dangerously flawed sense. The land that Lot was choosing for himself[3] was on the edge of the land promised to Abraham, if not actually outside it (see 13:12), while the people with whom he was choosing to live were wicked sinners, under God’s curse, rather than Abram, the bearer of the Lord’s blessing. It is no surprise that Lot’s life began to follow a downward trajectory from this moment onward, when the two of them separated (13:11).

---

[1] Duguid, “Hagar the Egyptian,” 419-21.
[2] Sailhamer, The Pentateuch as Narrative, 134.
[3] “Lot chose for himself” in Genesis 13:11 contrasts sharply with God’s word to Abram, “I give to you” in verse 15.

When Lot gazed east, we are invited to read what he saw in his heart; a second Eden where he ruled and profited. Nice picture, but no prize. Thanks for you're valuable insights professor. Much respect...Ken

 

[0isez]

Hello Ken.

This are my thoughts on the passage:
1) There is a simile in: like the garden of the LORD, (So this would lead us to understand that was only a reference for the conception of something which was desired and expected in a good way).
2) There are other similarities for the reference to the land of Egypt (We know how this will develop further with the slavery of the Israelites).
3) I think the author it is going more deeply in the spiritual sight and our spiritual perspective of what we cant or can see with human eyes. Although we may think we have understanding, our eyes may deceive us many time. I think that would be a fair application of the text: a) Human Eyes Perspective and b) Spiritual Perspective.

I will quote from Lange referring the text:
Lot makes the worst choice, while he thinks that he has chosen well. For his worldly-mindedness, the sin in his choice, he was first punished through the plundering of his house, and his captivity in the war of the kings, which followed soon after his choice, and then through his fearful flight from Sodom, and the losses, misfortunes and crimes which were connected with it. Lange
My though on this is: "Beware with what you chose just contemplating the glitter and the shining of it"

God bless you in Christ!

All of you agree that it was Lot's eye view and heartfelt thoughts that we are treated to. Thanks for the insights...In Him...Ken

 

[0isez]

I dare say all the descendants of Noah had some sense of what was lost when Adam and Eve were expelled. It was always in the background, similar to that innate desire to always seeking home that most feel to this day.

I’m pretty sure Lot saw it and thought “that is like Eden.”

That urge is still with us. Look at how many products are marketed with “Eden” in their names.

So, Eden is the gold standard of expressions of paradise then and now. Wow.

 

[Polanus1561]

Ah the Mountain of the LORD, a great theme in the Bible. The Bible starts with a Mountain in Eden (Ezek 28:14) and ends with New Jerusalem (Rev. 22:10). Who shall ascend the Hill of the LORD (Ps 24)