RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
The postmillennialism that Paul and I accept sees the church age as inclusive of the millennium.
[Edited on 8--3-05 by Draught Horse]
One sentence on Amillennialism
- Thread starter C. Matthew McMahon
- Start date
- Status
The postmillennialism that Paul and I accept sees the church age as inclusive of the millennium.
[Edited on 8--3-05 by Draught Horse]
wsw201
Puritan Board Senior
Amils define the millennium the same as most postmils do, it is the period between the 1st and 2nd advent. Maybe I'm just not following your train of thought. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the focus being heavenly. I see it as both heavenly and earthly, especially earthly since I am still here on earth!
Again not denying that postmil and amills agree with the timing of millennium. I said early that the difference is more do with nature of the millennium. Yes I agree we are still very much on earth but the bible also says that through the Spirit we have been seated in heavenly places Eph 2:5-6. When I speak of our heavenly focus I mean "Our treasure ought to be in heaven, not on the earth" (Matt 6:19). "Here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come" (Heb 13:14). . "The sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed" (Rom. 8:18). For we have "an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade -- reserved in heaven for us" (1 Pet 1:4).
VanVos
I would say we maintain that same heavenly focus. We're not looking for treasure here on earth and nothing in this present age is comparable to what will come after Christ's Second Advent. We just expect to see God bring about extraordinary gospel success in the New Covenant era is all. This has a practical impact on our worldview that says build missions for the long term, not in a fire and forget manner like some appear to do. It also means that we look to build distinctly Christian institutions and cultivate and defend Christian culture. But none of that means that this is where we're seeking our treasure in the here and now. The difference in the nature of the millennium has to do with the extent of gospel success. Not with where we're seeking to store up our treasures.
I agree it is do with the extent of gospel success, if we define success in numerical terms. But it's more than that in my understanding. It's do with the nature of the Kingdom of God in this present age. Amillennialist sees the domain of the Kingdom of God limited to the church in this present age . Where as postmillennialist expects to see the domain of the Kingodm of God in all the institutions.
VanVos
P.S. Just a quick clarification, when I speak of the Kingdom of God I mean the redemptive Kingdom of God not the providential Kingdom of God
[Edited on 8-4-2005 by VanVos]
VanVos
P.S. Just a quick clarification, when I speak of the Kingdom of God I mean the redemptive Kingdom of God not the providential Kingdom of God
[Edited on 8-4-2005 by VanVos]
Good observation. Here's two interesting articles on the two-kingdoms view
For the two-kingdoms distinction
http://www.modernreformation.org/bs00disting.htm
Against the two-kingdoms distinction
http://www.natreformassn.org/statesman/01/retreat.html
VanVos
For the two-kingdoms distinction
http://www.modernreformation.org/bs00disting.htm
Against the two-kingdoms distinction
http://www.natreformassn.org/statesman/01/retreat.html
VanVos
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
I wasn't impressed by the first one, since it seemed to bash the founding fathers more than anything else and hinted at how good Roger Williams would later be (no, it doesnt mention it but the historical reference is there). At the same time, our feelings toward Sandlin are mutual.
I accept the two-kingdom view described by Andrew Melville
Sir, as diverse times before, so now again I must tell you there are two kings and two kingdoms in Scotland; there is Christ Jesus and His Kingdom the Kirk, whose subject King James the Sixth is, and of whose Kingdom he is not a king, nor a head, nor a lord, but a member; and they whom Christ has called, and commanded to watch over His kirk and govern His spiritual kingdom, have sufficient power of Him and authority so to do, both together and severally, the which no Christian King nor prince should control and discharge, but fortify and assist, otherwise not faithful subjects, not members of Christ.
Andrew Melville to James the Sixth (First) in 1596
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
I just want to stress that he is no longer a theonomist; indeed, he routinely mocks them.
The term "amillennial" emerged at the turn of the 20th Century. Before that, amillenarians called themselves postmillennial because they believed Christ would come back after the millennial age, but they were different from the traditional postmillenarians in that they did not believe in an earthly millennial age yet to dawn. Kyper was perhaps the first to coin the term "amillennial." ??
The amillennial position has been the predominant eschatological view of Christianity since the days of Augustine. (City of God) It could also be said that Paul's eschatology is consistent with this view - as his writings reveal he was not a millenarian.
Amillenarians hold that the promises made to Israel, David and Abraham in the Old testament are fulfilled by Jesus Christ and his church during this present age. The millennium is the period of time between the two advents of our Lord with the thousand years of Rev. 20 being symbolic of the entire interadvental age. At the first advent of Jesus, Satan was bound by Christ's victory over him at Calvary and the empty tomb. The effects of this victory continued because of the presence of the kingdom of God via the preaching of the gospel and as evidenced by Jesus' miracles. Throughout the spread of the gospel, Satan is no longer free to deceive the nations. Christ is presently reigning in heaven during the entire period between Christ's first and second coming. At the end of the millennial age, Satan is released, a great apostasy breaks-out, the general resurrection occurs, Jesus Christ returns in final judgment for all people, and he establishes a new heaven and earth.
The Amill view has deep roots in Christian history as its major thinkers held to some version of it: Augustine, Aquinas, Luther and Calvin. (Not to prove that it's true but an often neglected note.)
No where in legitimate teachings of Amillennialsim is found sinful and arrogant speculations on quantities of numbers of the saved vs. not saved - i.e. the success of the Gospel ( otherwise labelled "pessimism.") The Amill find these straw-men offensive as much as the accusation of hyper-Calvinism.
Robin
...some notes from studies with Dr. Kim Riddlebarger
[Edited on 8-6-2005 by Robin]
The amillennial position has been the predominant eschatological view of Christianity since the days of Augustine. (City of God) It could also be said that Paul's eschatology is consistent with this view - as his writings reveal he was not a millenarian.
Amillenarians hold that the promises made to Israel, David and Abraham in the Old testament are fulfilled by Jesus Christ and his church during this present age. The millennium is the period of time between the two advents of our Lord with the thousand years of Rev. 20 being symbolic of the entire interadvental age. At the first advent of Jesus, Satan was bound by Christ's victory over him at Calvary and the empty tomb. The effects of this victory continued because of the presence of the kingdom of God via the preaching of the gospel and as evidenced by Jesus' miracles. Throughout the spread of the gospel, Satan is no longer free to deceive the nations. Christ is presently reigning in heaven during the entire period between Christ's first and second coming. At the end of the millennial age, Satan is released, a great apostasy breaks-out, the general resurrection occurs, Jesus Christ returns in final judgment for all people, and he establishes a new heaven and earth.
The Amill view has deep roots in Christian history as its major thinkers held to some version of it: Augustine, Aquinas, Luther and Calvin. (Not to prove that it's true but an often neglected note.)
No where in legitimate teachings of Amillennialsim is found sinful and arrogant speculations on quantities of numbers of the saved vs. not saved - i.e. the success of the Gospel ( otherwise labelled "pessimism.") The Amill find these straw-men offensive as much as the accusation of hyper-Calvinism.
Robin
...some notes from studies with Dr. Kim Riddlebarger
[Edited on 8-6-2005 by Robin]
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Originally posted by Robin
The term "amillennial" emerged at the turn of the 20th Century. Before that, amillenarians called themselves postmillennial because they believed Christ would come back after the millennial age, but they were different from the traditional postmillenarians in that they did not believe in an earthly millennial age yet to dawn. Kyper was perhaps the first to coin the term "amillennial." ??
The amillennial position has been the predominant eschatological view of Christianity since the days of Augustine. (City of God) It could also be said that Paul's eschatology is consistent with this view - as his writings reveal he was not a millenarian.
Amillenarians hold that the promises made to Israel, David and Abraham in the Old testament are fulfilled by Jesus Christ and his church during this present age. The millennium is the period of time between the two advents of our Lord with the thousand years of Rev. 20 being symbolic of the entire interadvental age. At the first advent of Jesus, Satan was bound by Christ's victory over him at Calvary and the empty tomb. The effects of this victory continued because of the presence of the kingdom of God via the preaching of the gospel and as evidenced by Jesus' miracles. Throughout the spread of the gospel, Satan is no longer free to deceive the nations. Christ is presently reigning in heaven during the entire period between Christ's first and second coming. At the end of the millennial age, Satan is released, a great apostasy breaks-out, the general resurrection occurs, Jesus Christ returns in final judgment for all people, and he establishes a new heaven and earth.
The Amill view has deep roots in Christian history as its major thinkers held to some version of it: Augustine, Aquinas, Luther and Calvin. (Not to prove that it's true but an often neglected note.)
No where in legitimate teachings of Amillennialsim is found sinful and arrogant speculations on quantities of numbers of the saved vs. not saved - i.e. the success of the Gospel ( otherwise labelled "pessimism.") The Amill find these straw-men offensive as much as the accusation of hyper-Calvinism.
Robin
...some notes from studies with Dr. Kim Riddlebarger
[Edited on 8-6-2005 by Robin]
That was more than one sentence
but it was an accurate summary of amillennialism. 
- Status
