On what basis do we forgive others?

[InSlaveryToChrist]

We all know God's justice demands propitiation for every single sin ever committed, whether small or big. Actually, there is no such thing as a small sin, because sin's heinousness is defined by the greatness of the offended party. God won't overlook sin, because He is holy. And because God is holy, His justice demands a holy sacrifice, that is, Himself. Christ is the only propitiation for any violation of God's law. That is the basis on which God forgives. Yet, I must ask, on what basis do we forgive others? We are told by God to forgive others as He has forgiven us. While this is a sufficient reason to forgive, it does not negate the fact that sin must be propitiated. When someone sins against us, he/she is sinning against God. In fact, sin by definition is violation of God's law. As a hell-deserving sinner, I don't (and I shouldn't) mind being sinned against as it concerns my own well-being, but as it inevitably breaks God's law, I cannot just ignore and tolerate it. If we don't take sinning against ourselves seriously, we are not taking sinning against God seriously.

Just a few days ago my father got pulled over by police because of [slight] speeding. "Fortunately," the police officer was our neighbour next door, so he let him go with a warning. In other words, he had mercy on him. But on what basis? Violation of civil law is sin against God, and someone needs to propitiate for that crime. I asked my father who is going to pay for it, and as a hard-necked universalist he said, "Christ did."

However, we don't have the right to pronounce anyone forgiven, but only on the condition of faith in Christ. So, is that what we should do, when we're sinned against -- to forgive on the condition that they believe in Christ? Of course, we can never know if they've truly repented and believed, but we do have the responsibility to treat professing Christians as true Christians, right? So, to sum this up:

When someone sins against us, we must forgive them, but on the condition that they profess to believe in Christ for their propitiation. We do not tolerate sin, not because of its negative consequences to us, but because God's law is broken.

Now, perhaps I'm overthinking, but honestly I cannot take God's command to forgive at the expense of God's holiness which requires propitiation for sin. Please, help me understand God's Word here.

 

[raekwon]

When someone sins against us, we must forgive them, but on the condition that they profess to believe in Christ for their propitiation. We do not tolerate sin, not because of its negative consequences to us, but because God's law is broken.

I dunno about that. There is not one sin that will go without ultimate consequence. The question is whether it will be paid for by the sinner himself in Hell, or if the ultimate consequence was taken by Christ at the cross. I don't get the sense from Scripture or reason that it's up to us to base our forgiveness of those who've sinned against us upon their profession of Christ. We forgive as God, in Christ, has forgiven us, and God will take care of the ultimate consequence, one way or another.

(Keep in mind also that when we pray the Lord's Prayer, we are praying that God will forgive us as we have forgiven those who've sinned against us.)

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

There is a difference between bring gracious, merciful, and forgiving. We are called to forgive as Christ forgives us. There is a point of reconciliation where justification is full for the Christian but the relationship still has a lot of forgiveness, graciousness, and mercy to work through. If that weren't true 1 John 1:9 wouldn't have been written. God is merciful and forgives us who are his of many things that we don't even see nor understand. It is based upon our reconciliation and our relationship with the father. Even we as brothers are called to be forgiving like this.

This is one of my favorite passages.

(Pro 19:11) The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression.

 

[py3ak]

Perhaps a better question might be, "On what basis do we refuse to forgive others?" While there may be much profitable reasoning in delving into motivations to encourage obedience to God's command, the simple command to forgive is all the warrant or basis we need.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Perhaps a better question might be, "On what basis do we refuse to forgive others?"

Maybe the better question should be on what basis we shouldn't seek reconciliation. I had a Pastor once ask me if I pretended to be more forgiving or merciful than God was. That was very penetrating. And the applications extended farther than I understood at the time he asked me that question. The main question for me became mercy and graciousness then. Forgiveness came later.

 

[moral necessity]

I try to remind myself that all sin is against God. "Against thee and thee only have I sinned, and done what is evil in thy sight." -(Ps.51:4). As Christ has forgiven me, I am to imitate him and forgive others. He will settle the account with them later.

Blessings!

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I try to remind myself that all sin is against God. "Against thee and thee only have I sinned, and done what is evil in thy sight." -(Ps.51:4). As Christ has forgiven me, I am to imitate him and forgive others. He will settle the account with them later.

Blessings!

One of mine has been settled. I believe John 5:24 and others we can talk about if you want. Your answer does not work with the OP in my estimation.

 

[J. Dean]

Well, since I'm not an infinite holy being I really don't have the right to exact propitiation for myself on a personal level in the same way that our perfect, holy, and sovereign God does.

 

[moral necessity]

I try to remind myself that all sin is against God. "Against thee and thee only have I sinned, and done what is evil in thy sight." -(Ps.51:4). As Christ has forgiven me, I am to imitate him and forgive others. He will settle the account with them later.

Blessings!

One of mine has been settled. I believe John 5:24 and others we can talk about if you want. Your answer does not work with the OP in my estimation.

Not sure what you mean here. I believe my duty is to forgive quickly, and to not be easily offended or keep a record of wrongs.

Blessings and fellowship!

 

[Philip]

Forgiveness on our part means letting God deal with the justice. God will repay---the issues of who God has mercy on and who He metes out justice upon are His issues. Our part is to forgive. That is what forgiveness means on our part: forgiving that which has been done to us and leaving the propitiation aspect up to God.

Now, perhaps I'm overthinking, but honestly I cannot take God's command to forgive at the expense of God's holiness which requires propitiation for sin. Please, help me understand God's Word here.

I would say that we forgive because of God's holiness. It is God's business to condemn the sin of others against us. We may call for repentance, but we must forgive first.

 

[Romans922]

Christians often believe that God has called them to forgive everyone who sins against them, regardless of their repentance. In fact, God never commands us to do such a thing, and God Himself is our example in this regard. God only forgives those with a repentant heart. How then can we love our enemies? How can we love the unrepentant? Let’s begin with the example of our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

In Luke 23:34, Christ prayed for His killers, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” There are several possible ways to interpret these words. Perhaps Jesus was merely asking the Father to withhold His hand from destroying them immediately, since their crucifixion of the Lord of Glory was done in ignorance (1 Cor. 2:7-8). Perhaps Jesus is speaking of actual forgiveness of their sins. If so, then perhaps Jesus is praying generally and conditionally for all, similar to His request in the Garden of Gethsemane that “if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” He may be saying, in effect “forgive them, but not My will but Yours be done.” Or perhaps Jesus knows that some of those participating in His execution are elect: those for whom He is currently dying. In this case, He would be praying on the basis of the atonement that He is accomplishing at that very moment, that those elect would not be damned. While commentators may disagree on the best option, we can say that any of these three options are plausible, biblical interpretations.

Matthew Henry says concerning Luke 23:34, “This is written also for example to us. First, we must in prayer call God Father, and come to him with reverence and confidence, as children to a father. Secondly, the great thing we must beg of God, both for ourselves and others, is the forgiveness of sins. Thirdly, we must pray for our enemies, and those that hate and persecute us, must extenuate their offences, and not aggravate them as we must our own (They know not what they do; peradventure it was an oversight); and we must be earnest with God in prayer for the forgiveness of their sins, their sins against us. This is Christ's example to his own rule (“Love your enemies,” Mat. 5:44-45); and it very much strengthens the rule, for, if Christ loved and prayed for such enemies, what enemies can we have that we are not obliged to love and pray for?”

When Stephen is put to death in Acts 7 he prays something very similar to Jesus in Luke 23:34, “He cried out with a loud voice, ‘Lord, do not hold this sin against them.’” As Jesus did, so Stephen prayed for his enemies, even at the point of them putting Stephen to death. This too sets forth a great example that we ought to pray for those who persecute us. His prayer preaches. It shows those who heard the prayer their sin and need of divine mercy and grace. His prayer shows charity to his killers; that he desired not their destruction but their salvation. We could think of Paul in Romans 9:3 as well, “For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.” Paul’s love for his Israelite brothers is bold and self-denying. His longing desire is for their salvation, even if it would mean being accursed, himself, if possible. Likewise Paul says in Romans 10:1, “Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.”

Luke 17:3-4 says, “Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.” There is the simple statement that the Christian forgives those who repent, just as the Lord forgives those who turn from their sin and turn to Him. Does that mean that a Christian can hold a grudge, hate the offender, since they haven’t explicitly repented of their sin? Does God allow Christians to hate unrepentant sinners? The above examples should be sufficient to show that the answer to both of those questions is an emphatic “No!” Luke 6:35 states (just to be clear), “But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.” God is kind to those who are ungrateful and evil. As God’s own people, Christians are a prime example of that. Christian, you were once separated from God, dead in your trespasses and sins. You were evil. And as God showed mercy to you so you ought to show mercy to others (Matthew 18:21-35). We ought to love the unrepentant. Yet, loving the unrepentant sinner is not the same as forgiving him.

What about the one who professes faith in Christ but is unrepentant? It looks much like Galatians 6:1-2, “Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” More specifically, it looks like Matthew 18:15-18, “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” How do you show this love? First, you seek to restore them by the Word of God, admonishing them with the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16-17). If they remain unrepentant through the process of Matthew 18:15ff, then eventually the elders will excommunicate them. Only then should they be treated “as a Gentile and a tax collector”.

As we have seen in our examples of Jesus, Stephen, and Paul, they loved the unrepentant through prayer to the Father: that He would not destroy them, but that they might be saved, if it be the Lord’s will. This is a prayer that those elect would not be damned. They loved the unrepentant by begging God through prayer for Him to forgive the unrepentant of their sins. Thus, they prayed that their enemies who persecuted them would see their sin and repent. Just as Christ loved and prayed for His enemies in this way, so we too must love and pray for our enemies. As Stephen prayed with loud cries before his enemies we too must pray before our enemies pleading that they would see their sin, their need of divine mercy and grace, and for God to save them.

 

[Nate]

Now, perhaps I'm overthinking, but honestly I cannot take God's command to forgive at the expense of God's holiness which requires propitiation for sin. Please, help me understand God's Word here.

Is Ursinus making a similar comment in his commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism when he answers the following objection (particularly #3)?

Obj. 5. But Paul did not forgive Alexander, for he says, 2 Tim. 2:4, “Alexander, the copper-smith, did me much evil; the Lord reward him according to his works.” Yet he obtained forgiveness of God. Therefore our forgiveness is not necessary in order that we may obtain the forgiveness of God. Ans. Forgiveness is three-fold. 1. Of revenge. This pertains to all men; inasmuch as all ought to forgive revenge. It is of this that this petition speaks, and this Paul forgave Alexander. 2. Of punishment. This all cannot forgive as all cannot inflict punishment. Neither ought the magistrate to whom it belongs to inflict punishment, to remit it except for just and weighty reasons; for God desires that his justice and law should be put into execution. This Paul also forgave Alexander in as far as it had respect to him. Yet he at the same time desired that he should be punished of God, in case he would persist in sin. 3. Of judgment in reference to others. This should not always be remitted; for God, who prohibits falsehood, will not have us to judge of knaves as honest men, but designs that we should distinguish the good from the bad. Christ enjoins the same thing, when he says, “Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine.”Be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” (Matt. 7:6:10:16.) Paul did not, therefore, sin in entertaining an opinion of Alexander, as a wicked man, as long as he did not repent of his wickedness.

 

[CharlieJ]

Samuel,

To go back to your original question, I think we must distinguish multiple levels of sin and forgiveness. All sin is against God, but some sins are also against humans. If someone steals my laptop, he has sinned against God, the state, and me. Each entity wronged has the right either to demand restitution or to forgive. God holds the right to punish, but also knows that we can't really make restitution, and offers to forgive us if we believe in Christ. The state has a right to punish, which (in the US) they may exercise through the police and judicial system. I would also have a certain right to punish, which I can enact in various but not unrestricted ways.

So, leaving aside the question of when we should and how we forgive, I think it's clear enough that when I am forgiving someone, I am not making any statement about their belief in Christ. Nor does my forgiveness of a person need to be predicated upon God's forgiveness of that person. Christians are still liable to human punishment; non-Christians may be forgiven human punishment without being forgiven by God.