Romans922
Puritan Board Professor
What do you guys think about this website and its supporters?
How should we respond to this website, if we were going to?
How should we respond to this website, if we were going to?
LittleGeneva.Com???
- Thread starter Romans922
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<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_204v.gif' alt='Pulling My Hair Out' border=0></a>
Just goes to show what lengths folks will go to in order to legitimize their repugnant ideas with Scripture.
[Edited on 2-19-2006 by SemperFideles]
Just goes to show what lengths folks will go to in order to legitimize their repugnant ideas with Scripture.
[Edited on 2-19-2006 by SemperFideles]
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
I wouldn't bother responding. They are so far on the fringe that they pose no real threat.
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
Ignore them. Hopefully American Christians have moved beyond the racism nonsense and won't be affected by the site.
One of the enemies of kinism is perceived as the "arch nemesis" of this board.
He calls kinists "skinists".
Several people, including myself, have spoken against kinists on our blogs. These men love being hated. They read their bibles selectively when it comes to "race".
For a particularly hateful blog, see this: http://www.xanga.com/white_kgc
This is a fringe group...but you will find these men in our PCA and OPC churches. I think they should be dealt with via church discipline.
He calls kinists "skinists".
Several people, including myself, have spoken against kinists on our blogs. These men love being hated. They read their bibles selectively when it comes to "race".
For a particularly hateful blog, see this: http://www.xanga.com/white_kgc
This is a fringe group...but you will find these men in our PCA and OPC churches. I think they should be dealt with via church discipline.
Presbyrino
Puritan Board Freshman
Is kinism synanomous with the klan or other white supremist/white seperatist, or neo-nazi groups? Or is it just a pro-white group without the violence?
Would a kinist church allow members of non-white, ethnic groups to join their churches?
What is considered white in kinist group? Only people with anlgo-british descent? So Italians, Dutch, Germans, French would not be welcomed in these group?
There are actual OPC/PCA churches that allow kinist doctrine to be taught in the pulpit, or tolerated amongst it's members?
Would a kinist church allow members of non-white, ethnic groups to join their churches?
What is considered white in kinist group? Only people with anlgo-british descent? So Italians, Dutch, Germans, French would not be welcomed in these group?
There are actual OPC/PCA churches that allow kinist doctrine to be taught in the pulpit, or tolerated amongst it's members?
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
They are the purest definition of a cult: full allegiance or else. They hate me and my friends.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
More specifically:
It is impossible to dialogue with 99% of them. If you tell them they are wrong, or even ask them to clarify their position, they will label you the most hateful of names. Also, they will call people "kinists" who are not even aware of that term.
It is impossible to dialogue with 99% of them. If you tell them they are wrong, or even ask them to clarify their position, they will label you the most hateful of names. Also, they will call people "kinists" who are not even aware of that term.
Let me save somebody from reading their definition by summarizing:
"People who say it's OK to marry outside of one's race are heretics....
BLAH BLAH BLAH, use selective Scripture, RANT, RANT, RANT, ...
It's good to stay within one's race, God made it that way, we're not racists, we're kinists, .....
BILE, BILE, BILE, clanging gong, EXCREMENT, EXCREMENT, EXCREMENT"
There you go. I saved you from expending useless calories exerting your eye muscles to scan over the stuff they've written.
JohnV
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
As G. K. Chesterton said,
Eph 2:13ff But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
by abolishing the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
[Edited on 2-20-2006 by JohnV]
Is it possible to deduce that, since they will believe anything who believe Kinism, that it is not that they believe nothing, but that they don't really believe in God. For is it not God who would make of all nations one race?
Eph 2:13ff But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
by abolishing the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
[Edited on 2-20-2006 by JohnV]
Well said Brother. I think it is one thing to be caught up in the prevailing philosophy of your time and, unknowingly, carry forward some sinful presuppositions concerning race. But, to resurrect such ideas reveals a heart of stone in my estimation.
biblelighthouse
Puritan Board Junior
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
This will put it in perspective:
For them, miscegenation is a worse sin that Sodomy. Need we go on?
For them, miscegenation is a worse sin that Sodomy. Need we go on?
My greatest qualms with the Kinists is their individualism, disregard for the historic Reformed faith, FVism, and latent Romanism (sacerdotalism, ritualism, and prelactic tendencies).
My 2nd criticism is the manner they advance their views. Their rhetoric is rancorous, contentious and immature. One of their favorite tactics is blog spam attacks and satire that approaches libel. But, as they point out, they only learned these things from their enemies (Doug Wilson).
My 2nd criticism is the manner they advance their views. Their rhetoric is rancorous, contentious and immature. One of their favorite tactics is blog spam attacks and satire that approaches libel. But, as they point out, they only learned these things from their enemies (Doug Wilson).
BlackCalvinist
Puritan Board Senior
*walks in*
*looks around*
*nods*
*walks out*
*looks around*
*nods*
*walks out*
BlackCalvinist
Puritan Board Senior
@ LadyFlintI've only seen one littlegeneva.com supporter here before.
Like I've said before.... in light of all the 1 John warnings, it's impossible for someone born of God to be a racist/kinist/whatever. That goes both ways on the spectrum. Body of Christ loves the body of Christ and sees no distinctions based on alleged 'race'. I pray that whoever it is repents before the end of their lives......
I can't even get angry about it, though. Scripture says evil men will grow worse and worse over time, so this is just one more manifestation (albeit a truly sickening one, since it involves twisting scripture extensively) of that.
[Edited on 2-22-2006 by OS_X]
rmwilliamsjr
Puritan Board Freshman
i appreciate with the depth of feelings that this issue provokes. but racism is not a salvation issue, it is possible, even likely in many cultures for genuine and faithful Christians to be racists. I have only to think of R.Dabney to understand that this issue, is not at the level of the core beliefs of the Faith. God saves us despite what foolish and inconsistent things we believe in addition to the Gospel.
nor is it adiaphora as the history of the US 19C demonstrates.
but something between salvation issue and adiaphora.
[Edited on 2-22-2006 by rmwilliamsjr]
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
I never knew what this phraseology meant until I asked someone a few days ago after finding it on a xanga from a subscriber list. I thought it was another Presbyterian subsect like FV. Than I put 2 + 2 together, after that someone told me. I've got enough -isms in my vocabulary as it is.
I agree that the body of Christ loves one another... However, I don't think racism is the unforgivable sin... that would only be blasphemy against Holy Spirit. People will always be possessed of an insular mentality and tribal allegiances, and it is not a white thing by any stretch of the imagination. Christ's blood covers a multitude of sins... racism not being least among them. I think it is clear God takes people one on one. There are those obviously so incensed by hatred, that they manifest no fruit of the Spirit. Of course, the vilest haters don't even profess Christ at all and many are followers of Nietzche and Spengler (e.g. avowed Anti-Christians).
And if most people were honest with themselves... they probably have or will find themselves marrying people of their own 'race,' as a preference-- and with the Reformed, probably even the same denomination. It doesn't mean they are mishandling Scripture, or that they are racist. I have had Italian friends who admit their families are partisan to them seeking out only Italians. Some among them might be trend setters in thinking about breaking that trend.
I heard creationist Ken Ham speak once, and I do think the reaction of universalism can be a little aggravating and asinine.... Some people think just by amalgamating all the races into one common stock than that will whimsically make the world a better place and hasten the Second Advent. Ham hinted that. If people say they embrace diversity, than why do they advocate eradicating all the nationalities and peoples of the world? Building the Tower of Babel, embracing one-worldism, and cosmopolitanism won't transcend man's sinful nature. The communists tried that in Yugoslavia and it didn't work to well-- given the civil war and nationalist aninomosities that erupted after nationality was supressed.
People may rightly be against the Scripture-twisting by these kinist groups, but the political correctness in reaction in extreme cases is a little naive as well. Trotsky conjured up the term racist-- and it's frankly part of the Marxist lexicon, and behind it, the Marxists held that the nation-state to be a bourgoesie social construct to be eradicated. The old school Marxists professed that the achievement of egalitarian universalism would end such distinctions in a socialist society...
For whatever reason, God saw fit to ordain nations and distinctive cultures...
Weren't Moses and Ruth kinists?
:bigsmile:
[Edited on 2-23-2006 by Puritanhead]
I agree that the body of Christ loves one another... However, I don't think racism is the unforgivable sin... that would only be blasphemy against Holy Spirit. People will always be possessed of an insular mentality and tribal allegiances, and it is not a white thing by any stretch of the imagination. Christ's blood covers a multitude of sins... racism not being least among them. I think it is clear God takes people one on one. There are those obviously so incensed by hatred, that they manifest no fruit of the Spirit. Of course, the vilest haters don't even profess Christ at all and many are followers of Nietzche and Spengler (e.g. avowed Anti-Christians).
And if most people were honest with themselves... they probably have or will find themselves marrying people of their own 'race,' as a preference-- and with the Reformed, probably even the same denomination. It doesn't mean they are mishandling Scripture, or that they are racist. I have had Italian friends who admit their families are partisan to them seeking out only Italians. Some among them might be trend setters in thinking about breaking that trend.
I heard creationist Ken Ham speak once, and I do think the reaction of universalism can be a little aggravating and asinine.... Some people think just by amalgamating all the races into one common stock than that will whimsically make the world a better place and hasten the Second Advent. Ham hinted that. If people say they embrace diversity, than why do they advocate eradicating all the nationalities and peoples of the world? Building the Tower of Babel, embracing one-worldism, and cosmopolitanism won't transcend man's sinful nature. The communists tried that in Yugoslavia and it didn't work to well-- given the civil war and nationalist aninomosities that erupted after nationality was supressed.
People may rightly be against the Scripture-twisting by these kinist groups, but the political correctness in reaction in extreme cases is a little naive as well. Trotsky conjured up the term racist-- and it's frankly part of the Marxist lexicon, and behind it, the Marxists held that the nation-state to be a bourgoesie social construct to be eradicated. The old school Marxists professed that the achievement of egalitarian universalism would end such distinctions in a socialist society...
For whatever reason, God saw fit to ordain nations and distinctive cultures...
While the first five words are important, the distinctions of culture, language, custom are God's handiwork as well. But life is a vapor, we have a Heavenly citizenship and we are sojourners passing through in an alien world. However, I don't think Heaven will be a homogenous place without distinctions anymore than this present world is... Aesthetic beauty is accentuated by contrast and variety. And I think Heaven will be beautiful.
Weren't Moses and Ruth kinists?
:bigsmile:
[Edited on 2-23-2006 by Puritanhead]
BlackCalvinist
Puritan Board Senior
You think so ?
Reading 1 John 3:10-15, I see:
10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Love one another
11This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous. 13Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
Now taking that as the modus operandi of what a Christian should be, how is it that a person can beat, kick, maim a slave, treat them as less than a person (3/5 of a person for census purposes) and still legitimately claim any true Christian faith, no matter how many other doctrines they may hold to in an orthodox fashion ?
Biblically, I do believe there could legitimately be slavery (although not as practiced in most Western Civilizations), but this passage alone (and there are many others) sort of puts a lid on exactly how 'racist' a person could be and still legitimately be a believer.
Looking at some of Seabrook's rants as well as stuff on the 'sister' site of LG and how they go out of their way to insult, demean and defame folks like Anthony Bradley, I have a hard time seeing any 'love' in that. Thus, my contention remains.
You feel me ?
BlackCalvinist
Puritan Board Senior
I don't believe racism is the unforgivable sin, either.
At the same time, I don't believe you can legitimately be a 100% true believer and a 100% racist. There's going to be some 'resistance' because the Spirit of God dwelling within will convict you of that sin, no matter how many smooth sounding philosophical arguments may be used to cover it up and deaden the conscience to the fact that such is sin. There will be some folks who stood by and watched folk who were supposed to be their brothers in Christ get treated like less-than humans who will be in tears before the LORD on the day of judgment.
And no, Moses wasn't a kinist (I know you said that tongue in cheek).
In fact, Moses married a Cushite in Numbers 12. Miriam and Aaron opposed him for it. Miriam spoke out against Moses in other ways because of her disagreement with it..... and the LORD struck her with leprosy.
Now there is a difference between preference of continued family lineage and racism. I'd have no problem marrying a non-black person, if that is who God so steered into my life. I'm not closed off to the possibility. (well, now I am, since I"m courting someone..... )
At the same time, I look to foster deep relationships with those of other ethnicities around me who profess the same Savior that I do, so that folks can see that the body of Christ is indeed not simply a homogeneous grouping of folks. That's something I don't think, for example, a Harry Seabrook can do, simply because the vile and contemptuous language that spews forth from his blog indicates he has no desire to build relationships with his brothers in Christ. But Galatians 3:28 says differently, in my opinion.
I think there is something beautiful about the body of Christ now as folk from all different 'tongues, tribes and nations' gather in corporate worship. They can be poor, they can be rich, democrat, republican, etc... but our common bond is Christ. That is 100% Biblical.
[Edited on 2-22-2006 by OS_X]
At the same time, I don't believe you can legitimately be a 100% true believer and a 100% racist. There's going to be some 'resistance' because the Spirit of God dwelling within will convict you of that sin, no matter how many smooth sounding philosophical arguments may be used to cover it up and deaden the conscience to the fact that such is sin. There will be some folks who stood by and watched folk who were supposed to be their brothers in Christ get treated like less-than humans who will be in tears before the LORD on the day of judgment.
And no, Moses wasn't a kinist (I know you said that tongue in cheek).
In fact, Moses married a Cushite in Numbers 12. Miriam and Aaron opposed him for it. Miriam spoke out against Moses in other ways because of her disagreement with it..... and the LORD struck her with leprosy.Now there is a difference between preference of continued family lineage and racism. I'd have no problem marrying a non-black person, if that is who God so steered into my life. I'm not closed off to the possibility. (well, now I am, since I"m courting someone.....
)At the same time, I look to foster deep relationships with those of other ethnicities around me who profess the same Savior that I do, so that folks can see that the body of Christ is indeed not simply a homogeneous grouping of folks. That's something I don't think, for example, a Harry Seabrook can do, simply because the vile and contemptuous language that spews forth from his blog indicates he has no desire to build relationships with his brothers in Christ. But Galatians 3:28 says differently, in my opinion.
I think there is something beautiful about the body of Christ now as folk from all different 'tongues, tribes and nations' gather in corporate worship. They can be poor, they can be rich, democrat, republican, etc... but our common bond is Christ. That is 100% Biblical.
[Edited on 2-22-2006 by OS_X]
rmwilliamsjr
Puritan Board Freshman
i don't want to get into a discussion where i appear to support places like the OP points to.
read what i wrote at:
http://www.dakotacom.net/~rmwillia/hap6.html
it is a big issue with me, however, i am aware that it is not a salvation issue.
Dabney, despite his pro slavery defense, it a brother inside the boundaries of the church.
likewise are those pointed to by the OP.
inconsistent, wrong, loud, maybe even evil, but yet still within the boundaries of the invisible church (actually since i am PCA, that is probably the visible church)
is murder wrong?
is it a sin that will be punished by God?
is mistreating a slave sin?
will Christians die with mistaken viewpoints and full of sin?
will God save us despite our inconsistency and stupidity?
yes to all.
will having the right thoughts, doing the right things with respect to racism save us?
no. i can treat everyone properly and as a brother and offer my life to their service and still be unsaved. yes.
read what i wrote at:
http://www.dakotacom.net/~rmwillia/hap6.html
it is a big issue with me, however, i am aware that it is not a salvation issue.
Dabney, despite his pro slavery defense, it a brother inside the boundaries of the church.
likewise are those pointed to by the OP.
inconsistent, wrong, loud, maybe even evil, but yet still within the boundaries of the invisible church (actually since i am PCA, that is probably the visible church)
is murder wrong?
is it a sin that will be punished by God?
is mistreating a slave sin?
will Christians die with mistaken viewpoints and full of sin?
will God save us despite our inconsistency and stupidity?
yes to all.
will having the right thoughts, doing the right things with respect to racism save us?
no. i can treat everyone properly and as a brother and offer my life to their service and still be unsaved. yes.
BlackCalvinist
Puritan Board Senior
I edited.
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