Is this what "Calvinist" believe?

[Richard King]

I have some people from my past trying to "rescue" me from what they perceive to be wrong theology lately.

Forgive me for not digging this answer up on my own but I am trying to read so much about reformed thought and what the Bible really says vs what I was taught for years so I am being lazy and posting the question here.

For what it is worth these two men were quoting a lot from a book on Grace by a Lewis Sperry Chafer out of the Dallas Theological Seminary. They insist that I read it to clear up my thinking but I don't feel an ounce of desire to do so right now.


I was told that if I would use the most basic of reasoning skills I would run from reading Calvinist writers because...

" Calvinist's believe that God created Adam to sin, even that was predestined...so logically that would make HIM both God and Satan."

Is that statement about what Calvinists believe accurate? I haven't read that anywhere. Go easy on me. I know I am still a rookie here.

 

[doulosChristou]

The end for which God created Adam and the world is His own glory. He decreed and ordained the Fall to that good, lovely and glorious end.

 

[Poimen]

Dear brother:

Your questions are admirable but I will say that if anyone wants to know what a Calvinist believes about something they should read his confessions.

I urge you to download the Reformed Confessions and read them for yourself. There is ample evidence there to disprove what these men are saying.

http://www.tulip.org/refcon/

Read Belgic Confession, Articles 14-16
Read Heidelberg Catechism, LD 3&4
Read Canons of Dordrecht 3&4 Head of Doctrine

Blessings on your studying and reading.

 

[JKLeoPCA]

Just a word of encouragement here,

Keep up the reading and searching! (and don't forget prayer)

I have the same issues with my parents trying to always get me out of "that Calvinism stuff." I was not raised in Reformed circles and had to read and flesh out a lot too. It is a very big deal to hit the Reformed faith out of the blue, so-to-say, when you were never taught that such a system of thought even existed. Growing up I had heard the names Calvin, Luther, and others, but only negative comments were given about them. So read on, and ask whatever you need to ask here or preferably at a local Reformed church.

 

[CalsFarmer]

www.opc.org, click confessions and go to the Westminster Confession with the scripture proof frames at the bottom.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

The accusation, "you think God=Satan" is pretty serious, I mean that's some serious blasphemy, if it was true. Think, though, what their fuzzy thinking is saying: That God had to create a world full of contingencies that he had no control over. That he just created the world, and hoped there wouldn't be sin. That Jesus was not "slain" from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). Or that Jesus was God's great "backup plan" to fix the mess men made. This view just sees people, not as clay pots (Rom. 9:21; Is. 29:16; 45:9), but as the most precious things in or out of the universe--more precious even than the Son to the Father (because he sacrificed him for them). Frankly, that's an overrated conceit.

The Calvinist, on the other hand, sees God as a purposeful God, one who makes things and does things for no reasons outside himself, for there can be no higher purpose than his OWN glory. So sin has to fit in his plan, his plan to display his own perfections in both wrath and in mercy. God did this for man because it pleased him to save some of a lost humanity and damn the rest. And he allowed Satan to corrupt himself, and to ruin the good creation to seve his holy ends and views.

But all the evil proceeds out of the inner corruption of the creature, not the predestinating purpose of God. "You meant it for evil, but God meant it fo good." So, it is the heart of corruption that is worthy of judgment and censure, not the overruling power and determination of God. He frustrates the wicked, and all rebellion. So when salvation comes to someone, he recognizes that he deserves nothing with respect to the blessing. God didn't even think so much of him that he decided to slay his own Son, just in case the sinner decided to take God up on the offer. No, God so loved the world (love in this instance can't possibly mean "prized"), he loved the world in this way: that he gave, he sacrificed his only Son, so that the believing-ones (who belong to Christ) would not perish. "Love" is given meaning by "what he did." Love is action or intention, not feeling. The deed takes precedence. "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life [sacrificed] for us" (1 Jn. 3:16).

Love is the opposite of wrath. It is to intend good or blessing toward. So if God intended good or blessing toward one-loved before the world began, then he also intentioned everything necessary to make that happen. This includes his sovereign right to allow the entrance of sin that brings about a helpless and hopless situation, into which God enters and acts as the Savior, and accomplishes the seemingly impossible--that he might be both just and the Justifier of the ungodly. Is there any act imaginable calculated to bring greater glory to God? Soli Deo Gloria. Amen.

 

[Puritanhead]

I don't want to sound like I'm beating up on you... But why should anyone seriously waste time addressing that...

Do you know what a straw man argument is? That's what that is...

 

[Robin]

Originally posted by Richard King
I have some people from my past trying to "rescue" me from what they perceive to be wrong theology lately.

Forgive me for not digging this answer up on my own but I am trying to read so much about reformed thought and what the Bible really says vs what I was taught for years so I am being lazy and posting the question here.

For what it is worth these two men were quoting a lot from a book on Grace by a Lewis Sperry Chafer out of the Dallas Theological Seminary. They insist that I read it to clear up my thinking but I don't feel an ounce of desire to do so right now.


I was told that if I would use the most basic of reasoning skills I would run from reading Calvinist writers because...

" Calvinist's believe that God created Adam to sin, even that was predestined...so logically that would make HIM both God and Satan."

Is that statement about what Calvinists believe accurate? I haven't read that anywhere. Go easy on me. I know I am still a rookie here.

Hey Richard,

Have a T-shirt made....we've all been on the "tour" of what you describe!

Rev. Kok has the best and most useful answer, btw. Here's a link to a huge library of classic Reformed writers/theologians (Calvin among them.) Be a Berean and read for your self and see.....

http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/index.html

Blessings,

Robin

 

[Bladestunner316]

Romans 9 is what did it for me!!!!