Is this really a church?????

[BobVigneault]

This is just a reminder. We debate some very worthwhile causes here for the edification of one another. We can learn much in this process. In my humble opinion, this is one of the finest Christian forums on the Web.

As we argue and debate our brothers and sisters here let's remember that the ENEMY is doing his best work in the 'mainstream' church. I give you Rick Warren endorsed, Granger Community Church.

http://www.gccwired.com/

Warning: This site is depressing and offensive.

[Edited on 3-20-2006 by BobVigneault]

 

[BobVigneault]

Presenter: Mark Waltz, Pastor of Connections
As Pastor of Connections, Mark Waltz is a unifying force at Granger. His First Impressions teams of more than 450 volunteers create an inviting experience for both newcomers and core leaders. And the "Wow"-making initiatives that have sprung from his teams include the Granger Connection Café, free shuttle service in the parking lot, greeting services and easily accessible information "“ all designed to help people connect with the church and each other. Mark´s book, First Impressions: Creating Wow Experiences in Your Church, addresses the issues of guest attendance growth and volunteer development, offering strategies for making high-impact first impressions. Mark´s ministry expertise is complemented by his marketplace experience, which includes retail management, employment and recruitment.

Presenter: Shelley Arredondo, Experience Specialist
Shelley Arredondo, Granger Experience Specialist, oversees the processes that help create "Wow" impressions for first-time guests. She coaches scores of volunteers in areas including greeting, security, traffic flow and guest services. Her passion for the local church and for people encourages volunteers to step out and make a lasting mark on those who come to "test the waters" at Granger. Shelley´s experience stems from 14 years in restaurant development, with leadership roles including Director of Training at TGI Friday´s®.


EXPERIENCE SPECIALIST?????????!!!!!!!!

 

[rmwilliamsjr]

i need a little bit of help understanding the criticism of this site.

look at a page like:
http://www.gccwired.com/listTemplate.asp?pageid=32

it is 4 core classes for learning about the principles of this particular church

look at the first one

Core Class 101: Discovering My GCC Membership

This class offers a basic introduction to the Christian faith as well as GCC's unique strategy. Learn about our Vision and Core Values, explore the structure of the church and discover the true meaning of membership.

there seems to be two distinctly different ways to approach the criticism of this.

1-it is seeker sensitive, too many "you" "you" "yous", however i don't know the content of the classes. i'd suspect it is more of the same but i don't know for sure.
the issue is if the teaching is inconsistent with fundamental Christian principles

2-the second criticism is concerning the form, the structure. are there elements in the structure that are inconsistent with good Christian Theology? my response to this page is that i wish my church had such a well defined set of classes to offer a new inquirer. i'd jump at the chance to be part of such an organization that presented such an elaborate entry point from the beginning. 4 different classes. how many of our churches have 1 inquirers class that meets on more than 1 day.

is the point of the criticism that Presbyterians can not be contemporary? can not interest people without using our particular club talk and using forms developed generations ago?
are the forms inconsistent with the Gospel or with particular historical manifestations of being reformed and Presbyterian?

what exactly is wrong with this site? is it the seeker sensitive vocabulary? is it the hip colors? why does the devil get all the good songs?

could you build a website that looked exactly like this but had good Presbyterian and reformed content? why or why not? are there techniques like sounding like seeker sensitive that you can not even use because the form corrupts the content?

Warning: This site is depressing and offensive.

it follows all the best website advice about getting people's attention, about holding it, about content and ease of use. etc.
hey. i couldn't even dream of making our church's website this slick and interesting.
can you point to the offensive parts and tell me why they are offensive?
i'm at a lose to see what you are seeing, so please help me see it.

i keep poking around. they offer a book

Before the first song is sung or the message is presented, people in your church have begun to make decisions about their return visit. First impressions really matter. From the children's classes to the friendliness of your greeters, new guests are evaluating their experience with your church. Within the first ten minutes they will be either impressed or disappointed. That impression or disappointment either helps them see Jesus or distracts their view of Him.

is there something wrong with this analysis? looks right on to me. are we rather than being attractive to people like they are striving to do, use club talk that people don't understand and turns them off?

help me here.
what is wrong with the website?
content or form or both?

[Edited on 3-20-2006 by rmwilliamsjr]

 

[BobVigneault]

The website was brought to my attention through this article. I'd like to write more but I'm kind of busy at the moment. Sorry Richard for the hit and run.


(From the Christian Worldview Network)

Sex Evangelism Hits Evangelical Churches

Some parents who live near a Hooters restaurant in Granger, Indiana are pretty upset. Above the Hooters restaurant is a huge billboard with the photo of a man and woman, (presumably), their naked feet hanging out of an unmade bed. Underneath the photo are the words, www.mylamesexlife.com. The word "œsex" is in red. These parents are outraged that their young children are asking questions about a subject that is inappropriate for their little minds. One of the mothers interviewed by a media outlet referred to the billboard as "œdisgusting". It would have been bad enough if the sign had been sponsored by Hooters, Viagra or Planned Parenthood. Imagine the surprise of the parents when they hit the Internet to find out the source of the offense and discovered it was Granger Community Church. Yes, at a time when it appears things can't get any worse in our culture, the evangelical church is ready and willing to prove otherwise.

Sex is the new evangelism tool. Madison Avenue has been using sexuality to sell for generations, but now hip new churches are realizing the potential. Take, for example, Granger Community Church's latest sermon series that prompted the offensive billboard campaign. It's entitled, "œPure Sex". The website says, "œYou'll experience dramatic presentations dynamic multimedias and the music of Switchfoot, All-American Rejects, Pussy Cat Dolls and John Legend." Who needs to sing hymns like Praise My Soul The King of Heaven in a Sunday morning worship service when you can get the sleazy Pussy Cat Dolls romping through your state-of-the-art sound system?

 

[rmwilliamsjr]

if the site was trying to use sex to sell me the Gospel, then i would have no problem understanding that form rode roughshod over content.

the biggest complaint i have about the site is that it takes the business model with its principle of efficiency to be the primary one(model, analogy, pattern) for the church. Although that doesn't say that the church is to be inefficient only that other values are much higher than business profit motived efficiency.

it is a matter of form and function. towards which i am currently reading _The Word is worth a thousand pictures_. however, without access to the content of sermons or of the inquirers classes i can only guess that the content is likewise watered down seeker sense Gospel. however that doesn't answer the question of whether truely reformed churches can learn from and even imitate the form.....

still poking around the website.