Pastors..... is this worthy of church discipline ?

[BlackCalvinist]

Situation I thought of the other day.....based on a convo I had with a buddy....

Church member A. is single, has struggled with lust for a few years of his walk. Has been through some bad relationships and says that 'saved women don't know how to treat him right'. Has an ex-girlfriend who is NOT a Christian, but has always been there for him as a friend. She says she respects his beliefs, is willing to follow him, etc.... but hasn't moved beyond basic theism as her 'belief system'. They continue to spend time together, he decides to marry her (yes, he's fully aware of 2 Cor. 6:14-18).

He does so because lust is becoming an issue between he and her and he pretty much says he's happy, despite the lack of spiritual connection.

If this man were in your church, would you bring him up on church discipline ?

Other thoughts ?

 

[Anton Bruckner]

It depends on what position he occupies in the Church. If he has a respectable and important office, then it behoves him and the church to follow the word of God in both letter and spirit (Abstain from all appearance of evil). Pulling him in front of the congregation is a must. If he is a nominal member, a simple admonition would do. Being a minister of Christ in a church office is no trivial matter, because that person is the visible ambassador of Christ, hence they are always being watched closely.

Now, I say this concerning a Christian, who might be tempted to marry an unbeliever because he or she loves the unbeleiver and the unbeleiver loves them. As Alterbridge says in the song, "Watch your wordsl", ""To truly see you must have faith"". I would sincerely opt for the Christian to obey God and walk in faith, because obedience is better than sacrifice, and God loves to exercize His strength in situation that seems impossible.

Listening to R.C Sproul recounting his conversion, R.C said he was about to dump his fiance, when she came to visit him at college. He prayed to God, to move, and the very night she got converted.

I am not saying that this would happen in every situation, but I would say this, that every situation obedience is better than sacrifice, and God loves a Christian more than a Christian loves himself or any unbeliever can love him, hence it necessitates that God always has the best interest of a Christian at heart, therefore obedience will ultimately lead to blessings beyond what the eyes can see.

[Edited on 8-19-2005 by Slippery]

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

The Bible never speaks about missionary dating.

"If this man were in your church, would you bring him up on church discipline ?"

If he persisted in his sin of desiring to marry her, without repentance, absolutely.

 

[Preach]

What if he defies the will of the session and marries her anyway? Is it sin? Yes. But now what does the session do? It's a sin for sure. But what is the difference between that sin and any other sin that a professed Christian committs when the Pastor preaches against it? See the dilemma?

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by Preach
What if he defies the will of the session and marries her anyway? Is it sin? Yes. But now what does the session do? It's a sin for sure. But what is the difference between that sin and any other sin that a professed Christian committs when the Pastor preaches against it? See the dilemma?

The concept you may be getting at is contumacy, defiance of church authority as seen in Matthew 18.

 

[Peter]

If he sinfully marries her should he divorce her? I know Paul says its alright to remain married to an unbeliever you were married to before conversion but the bible commands believers who take heathen wives to put them away (Ezra).

 

[Poimen]

Originally posted by webmaster
The Bible never speaks about missionary dating.

"If this man were in your church, would you bring him up on church discipline ?"

If he persisted in his sin of desiring to marry her, without repentance, absolutely.

 

[alwaysreforming]

It seems it might be a wise idea for the church elders/pastor to sit these two down and get to know her a little bit and share the Gospel with her.

She might be an unbeliever, but the Church has to be careful how they treat HER, as well as him.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Once they are married, they are married. Forget about "divorcing", that's just adding sin to sin. Church discipline should be followed, starting at the lowest appropriate level, and working up. If he were warned not to sin by the session, and then he disobeyed God's Word, and the session's scriptural counsel, then he is guilty of contumacy as well. He must be brought to conviction by the application of the Scriptures and the power of the Holy Spirit. He really needs to repent--to his wife (how will that go over?), to the session, and to the church--that is, to all the wounded parties. If he isn't following that road, he will be following an errant road, which will eventually bear the bitterest fruit.

It's still complicated, he hopefully continues to come to church! And may bring his wife! She may become a Christian. Perhaps she won't. This is just a stab in the dark, but I think as long as he evidently repented, and continued to come faithfully to church, the discipline would never be so great as excommunication. Sad to say, I reckon most who start out on this path end up far away from the faith, or stunted in their growth at best...

I know the occasional person (from all my years bouncing around this country) who come alone, as they have most of their maried life, who love their spouses, but who pine for their souls. If he/she never believes, what a double grief to bear! And children too will be marked with sorrow one way or another... So hard to see when lust is in the driver's seat.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Originally posted by Contra_Mundum He really needs to repent--to his wife (how will that go over?), to the session, and to the church--that is, to all the wounded parties.

How exactly does one repent of marrying an unsaved wife to an unsaved wife ?

What exact 'ecclesiastical penalty' would be imposed upon said member aside from public acknowledgement of the sin ? How does he 'turn from it' (metanoeo) ?

By the way, thanks for the answers. This is a situation I have seen pop up from time to time with many of the disatrous outcomes you all have warned of (especially the issue of stunted growth). you're making me think

[Edited on 8-21-2005 by OS_X]

 

[Contra_Mundum]

OS,
<wry chuckling> I don't know "how." How do you tell someone (who you don't want to divorce)

Baby, you need to know that I knowingly sinned and violated an article of my faith by marrying you. I should never have done it. But I don't love you any less, nor do I want to divorce you, nor you divorce me. You took a husband you had no right to take, and so my sin was the door to your sin. Honey, I'm very sorry. Please forgive me.

I just know that sin affects the whole crowd involved, and we must acknowledge sin and its effects. If the man is truly sorry for sinning in this way, I don't see how he can tell God he's sorry, tell the church too, but when it comes to the other one involved in the sinful creation of the new (unchangeable) situation, he doesn't owe her anything.

Telling the wife (I think) would be the real acid test of his repentance

 

[Marcos]

You have to be very careful in letting this type of relationship flourish in the congregation. If members of new faith see this type of behavior common in the church then it will start en epidemic. I would suggest home counseling with the couple and address to the church the consequences of marriage outside of scripture without mentioning any names.

[Edited on 8-22-2005 by Marcos]