Is the Lord's Day necessarily the Sabbath?

[OPC'n]

Do we have proof that the Apostles continued to keep the Jewish Sabbath after Christ's resurrection? It seems to me that this would be a violation of the 4th Commandment when it states to labor for 6 days. In essence, there would have been 5 days of labor and 2 days of rest if the Apostles encouraged the new converts to do this.

 

[Romans922]

Do we have proof that the Apostles continued to keep the Jewish Sabbath after Christ's resurrection? It seems to me that this would be a violation of the 4th Commandment when it states to labor for 6 days. In essence, there would have been 5 days of labor and 2 days of rest if the Apostles encouraged the new converts to do this.

Following the resurrection, Jesus and the apostles clearly no longer followed the Jewish Sabbath (7th day (saturday) Sabbath), but rather the Christian Sabbath (1st day, Lord's day, sunday).

There's a good case to be m ade that every appearing of Christ after the resurrection Christ appeared on the 1st day of the week to the disciples. And Acts 20:7 the disciples met on the first day of the week, and 1 Cor. 16:1.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

The Sabbath was always the Lord's day:

"...but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God." (Ex. 20:10a)

"If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable..." (Is. 58:13a)

Excellent!

 

[Dachaser]

Oh...so you believe your confession on this point is not "Technically True"?

For what it is worth, I think both the 1689LBC and the Westminster address this matter in a "technically true" way.

P.S. To be clear, there is a distinction to be made between the Jewish Sabbath and the Christian Sabbath. However, Observing the Christian Sabbath fits perfectly withing scriptures calling to be obedient to the creation ordinance formula and the 4th commandment (in it's moral form).

I think that we are agreeing thay the Christian Sabbath is now changed to Sunday, the Lord's day, correct?

 

[Dachaser]

So, do you only acknowledge 9 moral commands or do you still keep the sabbath?

All 10 Commandments, its just that I see the Day to honor God as being Sunday , the Lord's day, not the Jewish Saturday Sabbath day.

 

[Grant]

I think that we are agreeing thay the Christian Sabbath is now changed to Sunday, the Lord's day, correct?

I can't say yes, because based on your post on this thread, I am not entirely sure of your position. I agree, without exception to what the Westminster Standards (the best summary of scripture in my opinion) have to say on this issue.

 

[Dachaser]

Moderator Note:

David,

We have been down this road before. Please explain yourself keeping the following in mind:
https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/new-covenant-theology-vs-covenant-theology.94129/#post-1149030

See also:
https://purelypresbyterian.com/2018...-an-evaluation-of-romans-14-and-colossians-2/

At present you are on very shaky ground.

I fully agree with keeping the Day unto the Lord, as was established by God in the creation itself, but I do not see Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath day, as mine to honor, but Sunday as the Lord's day, Christian Sabbath time.

 

[Dachaser]

I can't say yes, because based on your post on this thread, I am not entirely sure of your position. I agree, without exception to what the Westminster Standards (the best summary of scripture in my opinion) have to say on this issue.

The Lord's day, Sunday, is the Sabbath Day that we under the NC now observe would be my position. I just prefer to call it the Lord's day now...

 

[Grant]

The Lord's day, Sunday, is the Sabbath Day that we under the NC now observe would be my position. I just prefer to call it the Lord's day now...

Yes that seems much clearer.

 

[OPC'n]

Following the resurrection, Jesus and the apostles clearly no longer followed the Jewish Sabbath (7th day (saturday) Sabbath), but rather the Christian Sabbath (1st day, Lord's day, sunday).

There's a good case to be m ade that every appearing of Christ after the resurrection Christ appeared on the 1st day of the week to the disciples. And Acts 20:7 the disciples met on the first day of the week, and 1 Cor. 16:1.

I know this. I was asking if there was proof that the Apostles continued to observe a Saturday Sabbath while observing the Lord's Day. People are saying there's proof. I want to see the proof.

 

[Herald]

No, there are no arguments from Scripture alone that would support "the Lord's Day" from Revelation 1:10 as Sunday, or a replacement of the seventh day Sabbath.

To understand how different groups have understood what "the Lord's Day" means we can look to history and tradition, but these things should not hold your conscience captive.

Joshua,

Jake quoted from the Baptist confession, which you subscribe to, stating that the first day of the week is the Lord's day, the Christian Sabbath. The framers of the 1689 LBCF used Rev. 1:10 to support LBCF 22.7. Do you take an exception to the confession in this area or are you in agreement?

 

[Dachaser]

I know this. I was asking if there was proof that the Apostles continued to observe a Saturday Sabbath while observing the Lord's Day. People are saying there's proof. I want to see the proof.

They continued to meet in the temple for service until the clear break with Judaism later on in Acts..

 

[OPC'n]

They continued to meet in the temple for service until the clear break with Judaism later on in Acts..

Chapter and verse please so I don't have to work too hard finding it

 

[Dachaser]

Chapter and verse please so I don't have to work too hard finding it

Acts 2:46/Acts 5:42

 

[Grant]

I was asking if there was proof that the Apostles continued to observe a Saturday Sabbath while observing the Lord's Day.

Chapter and verse please so I don't have to work too hard finding it

While I may not use the word "observe". Below are 2 examples where the Apostle Paul still engaged the Jews on the Sabbath.

Acts 13:13-15 ESV
13Now Paul and his companions set sail from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia. And John left them and returned to Jerusalem, 14but they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia. And on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of encouragement for the people, say it.”

So again, I am not saying they "kept" both for all time and in the same way. However, they did take advantage of the Jewish Sabbath to teach the Jews. Acts is definitely, in a few ways, a TRANSITORY time for the Saints. Also see:

Acts 17:1-3 ESV
1Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.”

P.S. If anything I could see them keeping it at times, in order to not unnecessarily hinder their outreach to the Jews, not as a matter of moral law but for the conscience of the Jews (another example would be the circumcision of Timothy in Acts 16:3). I hope that is helpful and answers your question. There is no NT evidence that supports the required keeping of the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) for Christians Post-Resurrection (in my opinion).

 

[Scott Bushey]

All 10 Commandments, its just that I see the Day to honor God as being Sunday , the Lord's day, not the Jewish Saturday Sabbath day.

How do you reconcile that with what you say here:

“The actual Sabbath itself, the one given by God to israel is still the Saturday day, so the Sunday day is not the Sabbath, but the Lord's Day of observing it now for the Christian”

It would seem, if you fail to see the actual change of cycle, i.e 1:7, that if this is true, you are intentionally sinning according to the 4th commandment by not keeping the last day.

 

[Myson]

Do we have proof that the Apostles continued to keep the Jewish Sabbath after Christ's resurrection? It seems to me that this would be a violation of the 4th Commandment when it states to labor for 6 days. In essence, there would have been 5 days of labor and 2 days of rest if the Apostles encouraged the new converts to do this.

No idea on proof but I read it in the gospel coalition article about this historical book on the Lord's Day. I'm sure theres evidence in the book.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/a-brief-history-of-sunday/

 

[OPC'n]

Acts 2:46/Acts 5:42

This says daily not every Sabbath.

While I may not use the word "observe". Below are 2 examples where the Apostle Paul still engaged the Jews on the Sabbath.

[you]Acts 13:13-15 ESV[/you]
13Now Paul and his companions set sail from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia. And John left them and returned to Jerusalem, 14but they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia. And on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of encouragement for the people, say it.”

So again, I am not saying they "kept" both for all time and in the same way. However, they did take advantage of the Jewish Sabbath to teach the Jews. Acts is definitely, in a few ways, a [you]TRANSITORY[/you] time for the Saints. Also see:
[you]
Acts 17:1-3 ESV[/you]
1Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.”

P.S. If anything I could see them keeping it at times, in order to not unnecessarily hinder their outreach to the Jews, not as a matter of moral law but for the conscience of the Jews (another example would be the circumcision of Timothy in Acts 16:3). I hope that is helpful and answers your question. There is no NT evidence that supports the required keeping of the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) for Christians Post-Resurrection (in my opinion).

Grant, I agree with you. It seems like they went to the synagogues in order to spread the Gospel not to keep the Jewish Sabbath.

So my point is this: I don't believe that the Apostles kept the Jewish Sabbath since there's no proof of that and the Christian Sabbath both and taught others to do that. I believe that would have come against the 4th Commandment when it says to work 6 days and rest one. There's no way the just got rid of the 4th Commandment either. The logical reasoning then would be that it was changed to Sunday.

 

[De Jager]

In Acts 16:13, Paul went out of the city of Philippi to the river on the Sabbath, to find the place of prayer. However, this does not mean that he was observing the Jewish sabbath. From what I understand, he was probably attempting to engage with the Jews in that city, but being that there was so few there was no synagogue, so they went to the river where a few God-fearers would pray on the Sabbath day. And that is where they met Lydia. I would expect that Paul would often engage with the unconverted Jews on the Sabbath. What better day to do it?

 

[Dachaser]

How do you reconcile that with what you say here:

“The actual Sabbath itself, the one given by God to israel is still the Saturday day, so the Sunday day is not the Sabbath, but the Lord's Day of observing it now for the Christian”

It would seem, if you fail to see the actual change of cycle, i.e 1:7, that if this is true, you are intentionally sinning according to the 4th commandment by not keeping the last day.

I see the Day to honor the Lord as for me being Sunday, the Lord's Day, as do not see the Church changing the Sabbath Day given to Israel , but as taking our new Sabbath day as now being Sunday.

 

[Dachaser]

This says daily not every Sabbath.




Grant, I agree with you. It seems like they went to the synagogues in order to spread the Gospel not to keep the Jewish Sabbath.

So my point is this: I don't believe that the Apostles kept the Jewish Sabbath since there's no proof of that and the Christian Sabbath both and taught others to do that. I believe that would have come against the 4th Commandment when it says to work 6 days and rest one. There's no way the just got rid of the 4th Commandment either. The logical reasoning then would be that it was changed to Sunday.

I agree with you that the earliest Christians still continued to meet in the temple on Saturday, as was their custom, but my contention is that the Church did indeed change the Day to worship and honor the Lord from Saturday to Sunday, but that was not changing the Sabbath given to israel, but to have that new Day as the new Christian Sabbath day.

 

[Dachaser]

In Acts 16:13, Paul went out of the city of Philippi to the river on the Sabbath, to find the place of prayer. However, this does not mean that he was observing the Jewish sabbath. From what I understand, he was probably attempting to engage with the Jews in that city, but being that there was so few there was no synagogue, so they went to the river where a few God-fearers would pray on the Sabbath day. And that is where they met Lydia. I would expect that Paul would often engage with the unconverted Jews on the Sabbath. What better day to do it?

I think that Paul sought out the local synagogue each saturday as the means by which he was able to preach to the assembled Jews that Jesus was the risen Lord and Messiah , but that changed when there was the clear break between Judaism and Christianity. Paul did go to give the Gospel to the Jews first, but that changed when God moved him onto the gentiles in his ministry.

 

[Scott Bushey]

I see the Day to honor the Lord as for me being Sunday, the Lord's Day, as do not see the Church changing the Sabbath Day given to Israel , but as taking our new Sabbath day as now being Sunday.

So then, since u see no positive command to change the 4th commandment to the first day of the week, you still remain required to then keep the last day sabbath? Do u or do u just reject the 4th command?

 

[Taylor]

I see the Day to honor the Lord as for me being Sunday, the Lord's Day, as do not see the Church changing the Sabbath Day given to Israel , but as taking our new Sabbath day as now being Sunday.

I mean no disrespect, but I am very confused by this. It seems that you are saying in the same statement that Sunday is not the Sabbath, yet Sunday is the Sabbath.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

David, I think folks are confused by your phrasing which seem to have some serious implications if taking at face value. The moral substance of the fourth commandment is one day in seven but the specific day (7 OT, 1st NT) was moral positive law and subject to change (the only honor greater than that establishing the 7th day based on God's creating is redemption in Christ which being arguably the greater work is great enough to change to the first day). If you are saying the Lord's day is a NT institution apart from the fourth commandment then it would seem you are saying the fourth commandment has expired with the seventh day sabbath.

I see the Day to honor the Lord as for me being Sunday, the Lord's Day, as do not see the Church changing the Sabbath Day given to Israel , but as taking our new Sabbath day as now being Sunday.

 

[Dachaser]

David, I think folks are confused by your phrasing which seem to have some serious implications if taking at face value. The moral substance of the fourth commandment is one day in seven but the specific day (7 OT, 1st NT) was moral positive law and subject to change (the only honor greater than that establishing the 7th day based on God's creating is redemption in Christ which being arguably the greater work is great enough to change to the first day). If you are saying the Lord's day is a NT institution apart from the fourth commandment then it would seem you are saying the fourth commandment has expired with the seventh day sabbath.

I am saying that the 4th Commandment is fulfilled and observed in the Christian Sabbath, which would be for us under the NC now Sunday, the Lord's Day. I do see the one day in 7, but do not see the OC Sabbath as being mine, Saturday, but Sunday as that Sabbath day now.

 

[Dachaser]

I mean no disrespect, but I am very confused by this. It seems that you are saying in the same statement that Sunday is not the Sabbath, yet Sunday is the Sabbath.

I am just saying, poorly it would seem, that the Jewish OC Sabbath of Saturday is not binding upon us now under the NC, but that we have the Sabbath Day now of Sunday, which is also the Lord's Day.

 

[Taylor]

I am just saying, poorly it would seem, that the Jewish OC Sabbath of Saturday is not binding upon us now under the NC, but that we have the Sabbath Day now of Sunday, which is also the Lord's Day.

Thanks for the clarification, brother.

Question: How is what you just said above materially different from saying that the Sabbath has simply been moved from Saturday to Sunday? If I may use an analogy, it seems that most here are saying, "1 + 1 = 2," and you are replying, "No, 1 + (.5 + .5) = 2." You are adding a biblical-theological step, but ending up in the same place, saying really the same thing (at least going by what you just said to me).

Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[De Jager]

So let's sum up some basics (for my own benefit):

-pattern of work 6, rest 1 established at creation by God (Gen. 2)

-this pattern was reinforced in the giving of the moral law (Ex. 20)

-God expected the Israelites to observe the Sabbath prior to the giving of the moral law; this, along with the pattern of Gen. 2 leads us to believe that it is an eternal, unchanging principle for mankind

-Leviticus 23:3 teaches that the Sabbath was to be a day of rest and a holy convocation for the people of God

-Jesus said that not one jot or tittle will pass away from the law until the end of the world

-Jesus calls himself the "Lord of the Sabbath" - and we are to conclude that he is still the Lord of the Sabbath

-God's people post-resurrection are clearly shown to be regularly assembling on the 1st day of the week. (for example: Acts 20). This leads us to believe that the day of convocation has switched from the last day of the week to the first day of the week.


Is this accurate?

 

[Dachaser]

Thanks for the clarification, brother.

Question: How is what you just said above materially different from saying that the Sabbath has simply been moved from Saturday to Sunday? If I may use an analogy, it seems that most here are saying, "1 + 1 = 2," and you are replying, "No, 1 + (.5 + .5) = 2." You are adding a biblical-theological step, but ending up in the same place, saying really the same thing (at least going by what you just said to me).

Am I understanding you correctly?

I just think that the OT Sabbath Day of Saturday was not given to the Church in the NC to be our Day to observe, but that the Lord's Day of Sunday became the Day for us now to observe.