How Much is "Too Much" to Pay a Pastor?

[DTK]

I never cease to be amazed at how Americans (and even folks in the church) love to discuss other folk's business, and then ask for others to pass judgment on something that doesn't really bear any weight on their own lives.

DTK

It is right that these things be discussed by any in the church, because it has bearing on the reputation of the kingdom, which affects us all. Ministers' salaries are not private business in as much as every facet of a minister's life should set an example to the flock, and yes, even the flock at large.

Well, then, we do disagree, and if that excuse suffices for what is going on here, then every aspect of every Christian's life is subject to your judgment.

4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Rom*14:4

If this text doesn't apply to what's going on here, then I am at a loss to find an application for it today.

DTK

 

[Archlute]

I never cease to be amazed at how Americans (and even folks in the church) love to discuss other folk's business, and then ask for others to pass judgment on something that doesn't really bear any weight on their own lives.

DTK

It is right that these things be discussed by any in the church, because it has bearing on the reputation of the kingdom, which affects us all. Ministers' salaries are not private business in as much as every facet of a minister's life should set an example to the flock, and yes, even the flock at large.

Well, then, we do disagree, and if that excuse suffices for what is going on here, then every aspect of every Christian's life is subject to your judgment.

4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Rom*14:4

If this text doesn't apply to what's going on here, then I am at a loss to find an application for it today.

DTK

David, that verse is found in the context of Paul discussing the relationship of faith, the tender conscience, and liberty from man made laws regarding food and days of observance. If we took it to restrict against the making of any and all judgments as you do here (much in the same that many in evangelical churches will interpret Matt. 7:1) we would be unable even to assert the rights of a presbytery to oversee and evaluate the life of a minister within her bounds.

 

[Montanablue]

I never cease to be amazed at how Americans (and even folks in the church) love to discuss other folk's business, and then ask for others to pass judgment on something that doesn't really bear any weight on their own lives.

DTK

It is right that these things be discussed by any in the church, because it has bearing on the reputation of the kingdom, which affects us all. Ministers' salaries are not private business in as much as every facet of a minister's life should set an example to the flock, and yes, even the flock at large.

I would agree with this statement if it was limited to one's own church. Its absolutely right for me to be concerned with the salary my church pays our minister, or, if I was in a Presbyterian church for instance,with the salary paid to other churches in our presbtery or denomination. However, I'm not sure that discussing a pastor's salary in another church or denomination is right or helpful, especially if I'm being critical. Its at least not right or helpful for me, and with that I think I'll be bowing out of this thread.

Thanks DTK

 

[DonP]

I would think a minister should earn in the upper half of the congregations avg. income

The only limit on too much would be that which would tempt him to sin.

If he is to care for our eternal soul should he not be paid more than a doctor who only cares for our temporal bodies?

He is certainly a teacher, + more, and has the education of a lawyer, or should have. He will settle disputes that would confuse most lawyers.

I think a church who wants a to pay only little for a preacher does not think too highly of the word, of God, of the ministry for sure and of their own souls.

I do think it would be wise to only pay him $249k with the new tax rule coming at $250k he would get less income.

But at $250k - 45% tax it would only be $162k

If it is a church with a lot of wealthy business people who make in excess of this he may be a lower paid person at that.

No limits on pay for pastors except where it would cause him sin. Look how many are broke, have to leave a denomination and lose pensions when the church goes bad, etc. etc.
Pay as much as you can so hopefully he will be able to save for his own future and not have to sell out to a corrupt denomination to keep a pension and provide for their family

And if it is a large church and this expense is not a burden on the families then no problem. The pastor has more work to do in a large church. Hopefully they will have an assistant and associate pastors too.

They are as valuable as a CEO of a worldly business.

And if the church is large and it is not a burden on the families no problem.
And if there are a lot of families there is more work for the pastor. And hopefully they will also have enough money left to pay for assistants and associate pastors and maybe even full time elders to support and care for the church

 

[DTK]

David, that verse is found in the context of Paul discussing the relationship of faith, the tender conscience, and liberty from man made laws regarding food and days of observance. If we took it to restrict against the making of any and all judgments as you do here (much in the same that many in evangelical churches will interpret Matt. 7:1) we would be unable even to assert the rights of a presbytery to oversee and evaluate the life of a minister within her bounds.

Yes, I am very much aware of the context, and its application is not restricted to the same; the principle enunciated there stands.

Moreover, it is a non sequitur to introduce the suggestion that I am restricting "the making of any and all judgments as [I did] here." I never said that, and much to the contrary I am conscious that my own words were the result of a judgment.

But the fact of the matter is, unless you are a member of that presbytery, and unless you can prove sin has been committed, it is my judgment that this man's salary is none of your business. So I do recognize the validity of judgments when it is appropriate.

DTK

 

[Archlute]

David, that verse is found in the context of Paul discussing the relationship of faith, the tender conscience, and liberty from man made laws regarding food and days of observance. If we took it to restrict against the making of any and all judgments as you do here (much in the same that many in evangelical churches will interpret Matt. 7:1) we would be unable even to assert the rights of a presbytery to oversee and evaluate the life of a minister within her bounds.

Yes, I am very much aware of the context, and its application is not restricted to the same; the principle enunciated there stands.

Moreover, it is a non sequitur to introduce the suggestion that I am restricting "the making of any and all judgments as [I did] here." I never said that, and much to the contrary I am conscious that my own words were the result of a judgment.

But the fact of the matter is, unless you are a member of that presbytery, and unless you can prove sin has been committed, it is my judgment that this man's salary is none of your business. So I do recognize the validity of judgments when it is appropriate.

DTK

a) Your application is unconvincing. Exactly how would you defend making that leap in a homiletics class? The principle must be taken in context otherwise all you get is gross proof-texting, which of course is not unknown even in Reformed pulpits.

b) The kingdom of God is larger than a presbytery, or even a denomination for that matter.

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

I think there have been a number of good points made.

A good preacher can hardly be paid too much.

It does look bad though if they preach against wealth and then accumulate a lot of it themselves.

But I hate to say it folks but money is relative.

What is moderate income in a New York church that services bankers, managers and the social elite, is an exuberant income to preacher from a small farming community in Kansas.

I think, as people have said, there are so many factors involved here. It is one of these issues where in some way we shouldn't talk about it all the time because so often it ends up being used against us, i.e. "that is too much," or "all those people care about is money," when in actual fact the salary is moderate for their area. I think, for example, it is important that the pastor be able to at least socialize and/or minister to his congregation. If this involves the need for a car in New York then think of the cost. If not then he needs a taxi allowance (or an appropriate salary) or the cost of public transport factored in. If he has a large family and it is a middle-upper class congregation perhaps he will also have to dress in a moderate manner, or drink coffee with them when meeting a member during their lunch break, or send his children to the same private school as the other members etc...

There are simply so many reasons.

Although I will add, a guy from my school in New Zealand just graduated and left in February to start a $250,000 job in New York. If a recent graduate from a backwater like New Zealand can earn that, then a minister can also.

-----Added 4/23/2009 at 04:49:21 EST-----

David, that verse is found in the context of Paul discussing the relationship of faith, the tender conscience, and liberty from man made laws regarding food and days of observance. If we took it to restrict against the making of any and all judgments as you do here (much in the same that many in evangelical churches will interpret Matt. 7:1) we would be unable even to assert the rights of a presbytery to oversee and evaluate the life of a minister within her bounds.

Yes, I am very much aware of the context, and its application is not restricted to the same; the principle enunciated there stands.

Moreover, it is a non sequitur to introduce the suggestion that I am restricting "the making of any and all judgments as [I did] here." I never said that, and much to the contrary I am conscious that my own words were the result of a judgment.

But the fact of the matter is, unless you are a member of that presbytery, and unless you can prove sin has been committed, it is my judgment that this man's salary is none of your business. So I do recognize the validity of judgments when it is appropriate.

DTK

Can we look at it though as a case study? A story to get the discussion going? I understood the question to be exactly what the title said, "How much is too much for a pastor?"

 

[Rich Koster]

If a man is actually laboring to preach the truth amidst the people, he is worth his keep. However at this rate of pay, I'd be curious to see how much he lives on, how much is wasted and how much gets put back into the ministry.

 

[DTK]

Can we look at it though as a case study? A story to get the discussion going? I understood the question to be exactly what the title said, "How much is too much for a pastor?"

Well, my own statements constitute something of a case study. Why limit it to a pastor? Do you want to post how much you make, and ask for everyone's opinion here whether it's too little or too much? I see that egalitarianism (so denounced on this board) is nonetheless alive and well, and its adherents are among *us*. We have met the terrible enemy of egalitarianism, and he is WE.

DTK

 

[ooguyx]

The only limit on too much would be that which would tempt him to sin.


I think a church who wants a to pay only little for a preacher does not think too highly of the word, of God, of the ministry for sure and of their own souls.

I agree that it is up to the congregation to determine the pastor's salary, but it seems that more often than not it doesn't happen that way (at least in mainline evangelical denominations).

I don't agree that a pastor's salary is tied to the congregations level of commitment to the word of God etc., the bottom line is that money is a resource that we have and we are expected to be good stewards of what we have, both in personal finance and church finance.

 

[N. Eshelman]

I wonder what a real pastor in Manhattan would make? Does anyone know Tim Keller's salary (anyone with a PCA Minutes of Synod could look it up)? Without knowing the cost of living, etc. in the area I find it hard to say too much about the wage.

Being in LA, I know that the cost of living can be HUGE in some areas. The house we are purchasing here is over $500,000- I bet Manhattan would be MUCH MUCH higher.

As for the maid, my wife said- 'sign me up'!

 

[DonP]

The only limit on too much would be that which would tempt him to sin.


I think a church who wants a to pay only little for a preacher does not think too highly of the word, of God, of the ministry for sure and of their own souls.

I agree that it is up to the congregation to determine the pastor's salary, but it seems that more often than not it doesn't happen that way (at least in mainline evangelical denominations).

I don't agree that a pastor's salary is tied to the congregations level of commitment to the word of God etc., the bottom line is that money is a resource that we have and we are expected to be good stewards of what we have, both in personal finance and church finance.

If that was referring to my statement:
I didn't say it was tied to the congregation's level of commitment.

They may not be able to pay more. I said if they do not value it enough to desire to pay more or if they only value it enough to pay a small amount this speaks to their view of God.

We should value it highly. Then pay as we are able, but sacrificially if necessary. As well as support evangelistic efforts.

We should be trusting God to provide for tomorrow and giving as much as we can rather than storing up in barns excessively.

Of course this is a matter of conscience so we cannot judge another in this matter.

 

[OPC'n]

New York City is a very expensive place to live. My bet is that he won't live very high on the hog on that salary. Probably better than many, but not real high.

 

[P.F.]

a) Your application is unconvincing. Exactly how would you defend making that leap in a homiletics class? The principle must be taken in context otherwise all you get is gross proof-texting, which of course is not unknown even in Reformed pulpits.
b) The kingdom of God is larger than a presbytery, or even a denomination for that matter.

The leap seems to me less than the implicit leap here:

It is right that these things be discussed by any in the church, because it has bearing on the reputation of the kingdom, which affects us all. Ministers' salaries are not private business in as much as every facet of a minister's life should set an example to the flock, and yes, even the flock at large.

In the former case, it is simply the application of a general principle of not sticking one's nose into others employment affairs to a second context (which would be well supported by reference to the Proverbs of Solomon). In the latter case it is a shift from Paul's admonition to lead an exemplary life to essentially a duty of all Christians to be minister-inspectors. The former "leap" is simply a valid generalization of a Scriptural principle. The latter leap is a justification for anyone being a busybody, as long as the victim is a minister. The former is warranted, the latter is not.

And that even leaves aside the idea that unbelievers are more scandalized by apparent avarice (is that the implicit accusation?) on the part of a single minister than by gossip about his salary by a mob of ministers. I should hope that none of that gossip would be motivated by envying at the good of a neighbor (rather instead by a sincere desire to aid this man in correcting his avarice or whatever the alleged sin is), but to the outside world, that's what it very well may look like.

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

I wonder what a real pastor in Manhattan would make? Does anyone know Tim Keller's salary (anyone with a PCA Minutes of Synod could look it up)? Without knowing the cost of living, etc. in the area I find it hard to say too much about the wage.

Being in LA, I know that the cost of living can be HUGE in some areas. The house we are purchasing here is over $500,000- I bet Manhattan would be MUCH MUCH higher.

As for the maid, my wife said- 'sign me up'!

I don't know Tim Keller's salary, but I do know where he lives and it isn't exactly a swanky part of New York (standard middle class) - not even technically in Manhattan. I would be very surprised if he makes less than $100,000 or more than $200,000. Redeemer's operating budget for this year and next should be mailed out in the next few weeks. I'll check it out and see if it details the salaries of the pastoral staff...

 

[Zenas]

There are people in our church who think my pastor gets paid too much when, at the time they thought this, he was probably below the poverty line for the amount of people who were in his house.

There is a prevailing stigma that not only should pastor's families be poor, but that by in large they should do without and worse than most of the congregation. I find this sentiment to be disgusting.

I think that the money that particular pastor is making is probably way too much, but I certainly am against intentionally keeping pastors impoverished, which is the preference of some.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I'm a free market capitalist. I don't think his salary is intrinsically any of our concern. I see some in his congregation are outraged over the amount and have even filed suit! Ok, well, since their tithes are paying his salary they DO have a vested interest in the compensation package (not that they should be suing - they should just leave the church - standard liberal fare: rather than bowing out in protest, they'd try to sue to impose their obviously minority position on the majority).

If his church wants to pay him that much, then fine.

I like free market too. Can't we still judge that a church is spending it's money poorly? Or perhaps that they have poor motives. This isn't the CEO of GE. This is a pastor.

I don't think you have a legitimate right to pass judgment on a church that is not your own and how it spends it's money... particularly when the money in question is the amount this congregation decided to pay its pastor. You have even less of a right to pass judgment on their motives for paying him as they do. That is their business.

 

[DTK]

a) Your application is unconvincing. Exactly how would you defend making that leap in a homiletics class? The principle must be taken in context otherwise all you get is gross proof-texting, which of course is not unknown even in Reformed pulpits.

b) The kingdom of God is larger than a presbytery, or even a denomination for that matter.

And neither is your contention against it convincing. And if you think that a text's application is limited to the precise context and situation in which it was given, then I suggest you would have nothing to say for it today by way of application. And I am thankful, mind you, that my homiletics prof didn't share your personal opinion.

Yes, the kingdom of God is much larger than the personal opinions offered by individuals here who really have no vested interest in this particular situation, other than their own assertion that they do. Personally, I think it's deplorable how you attempted to twist my words into something I never said in your earlier post...you don't even acknowledge your attempt to misconstrue my earlier words. Now, to be sure, I'm not offended, but it did expose the problem with your argument. So at this point, I'm willing to accept the fact that you're simply all for this particular brand of egalitarianism.

Now then, if you really believe that for which you're contending, please post your own salary here, and ask those who share your egalitarian perspective whether you're making too much or too little, or whether your place of employment (if you have such) is paying you too much or too little. Hey, you're a model here, and that makes your personal business just as legitimate as the situation in question. After all, isn't the kingdom of God bigger than just one church and one pastor's salary?

DTK

 

[Marrow Man]

Let me apologize for posting this thread; the conversation has begun to turn in a direction I had not intended, and I regret that. However, some good points have been made on the thread:

1) The church seems to be acting "hypocritically" in denouncing "the rich" which designing a package wherein their pastor enters that realm.
2) Cost of living in NYC/Manhattan is much higher than I thought; nevertheless, paying for a maid and essentially two housing allowances seems a bit much.
3) While there may be mediocre pastors who are paid too much, there are probably plenty of good, solid men who are not paid nearly enough.
4) What a church chooses to pay it's pastor is mostly its own business. There can be gross consequences to that, in either direction, and it must be willing to live with those. This is the free market at work, so to speak.
5) I realize that I am probably a whole lot nosier than I need to be, and I have come dangerously close on this thread to committing a 10th Commandment violation.

In consideration of this and Pastor King's last post, I will be perfectly willing to post the detail of my own call on this thread. I doubt most people will want to be bored to tears by such a post, but since I'm the one who created this monster, I am perfectly willing to turn him over to the villagers with their torches.

 

[Archlute]

a) Your application is unconvincing. Exactly how would you defend making that leap in a homiletics class? The principle must be taken in context otherwise all you get is gross proof-texting, which of course is not unknown even in Reformed pulpits.

b) The kingdom of God is larger than a presbytery, or even a denomination for that matter.

And neither is your contention against it convincing. And if you think that a text's application is limited to the precise context and situation in which it was given, then I suggest you would have nothing to say for it today by way of application. And I am thankful, mind you, that my homiletics prof didn't share your personal opinion.

Yes, the kingdom of God is much larger than the personal opinions offered by individuals here who really have no vested interest in this particular situation, other than their own assertion that they do. Personally, I think it's deplorable how you attempted to twist my words into something I never said in your earlier post...you don't even acknowledge your attempt to misconstrue my earlier words. Now, to be sure, I'm not offended, but it did expose the problem with your argument. So at this point, I'm willing to accept the fact that you're simply all for this particular brand of egalitarianism.

Now then, if you really believe that for which you're contending, please post your own salary here, and ask those who share your egalitarian perspective whether you're making too much or too little, or whether your place of employment (if you have such) is paying you too much or too little. Hey, you're a model here, and that makes your personal business just as legitimate as the situation in question. After all, isn't the kingdom of God bigger than just one church and one pastor's salary?

DTK

David, you're still dodging the issue. Application must must speak to the church today, but it must also be limited and guided by the context of the passage. I don't see that care in your application. I learned my homiletics from the Rev. Dr. Hywel Rees Jones, friend and student of the late Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones. So if you have a beef with it, please take it up with him.

Btw, accusations of "egalitarianism" are convenient when you get yourself boxed into a corner. It is known in debate as throwing out a red-herring.

 

[Grace Alone]

An interesting comparison of salaries to me would be Harry Reeder and Tim Keller...both huge churches but a vastly different cost of living. I'd think Tim Keller might need double the salary in NYC versus Birmingham, AL.

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

An interesting comparison of salaries to me would be Harry Reeder and Tim Keller...both huge churches but a vastly different cost of living. I'd think Tim Keller might need double the salary in NYC versus Birmingham, AL.

Very good point, Janis. My parents are members of Pastor Reeder's church (Briarwood) - their budget is very similar to Reedemer's. The last budget I saw (several years ago) put his salary in the $80,000 range - I wouldn't be surprised if Pastor Keller's is twice that. Interestingly, Pastor Reeder lives in a nice house in the nicest neighborhood in Birmingham - Pastor Keller doesn't live in poverty by any means, but the quality of their homes and neighborhoods is very different. I'm not making a judgment about either one (Pastor Reeder is very sacrificial in his giving), just making the observation that a lot less money will get you a lot more in Birmingham than in NYC.

All that to say, we should expect a pastor's salary to be a lot higher in a city like New York compared to the pastor of a similar church in a smaller town.

 

[DMcFadden]

I wonder what a real pastor in Manhattan would make? Does anyone know Tim Keller's salary (anyone with a PCA Minutes of Synod could look it up)? Without knowing the cost of living, etc. in the area I find it hard to say too much about the wage.

Being in LA, I know that the cost of living can be HUGE in some areas. The house we are purchasing here is over $500,000- I bet Manhattan would be MUCH MUCH higher.

As for the maid, my wife said- 'sign me up'!

Nathan,

Thanks for weighing in on the subject. Yes, your house cost more than a half million (a couple of years ago it would have been much closer to a million bucks). Cost of living does matter and should not be discounted in these conversations.

Folks need to realize the history of Riverside Church. This is the house Rockerfeller built and it has a long history of being the center of limosine liberal Christianity in Protestantism. Located within a stone's throw from the National Council of Churches headquarters (490 Riverside Dr. vs. 475 Riverside Dr.), pastors like Fosdick, William Sloane Coffin, James Forbes, etc. have set the bar pretty high for "progressive" ministry with a hard left political agenda.

My former denom, ABC, LOVES to crow about Riverside as an element of pride, a sentiment reciprocated by the Riverside folks as is evident from their web page:

Denominational Affiliations

American Baptist Churches USA
American Baptists are a Christ-centered, biblically grounded, ethnically diverse people called to radical personal discipleship in Christ Jesus. Our commitment to Jesus propels us to nurture authentic relationships with one another; build healthy churches; transform our communities, our nations, and our world; engage every member in hands-on ministry; and speak the prophetic word in love. The Riverside Church is a member church of ABC/USA.

The United Church of Christ
The United Church of Christ is a community of faith that seeks to respond to the Gospel of Jesus Christ in word and deed. The UCC was founded in 1957 as the union of several different Christian traditions: from the beginning of our history, we were a church that affirmed the ideal that Christians did not always have to agree to live together in communion. Our motto-"that they may all be one"-is Jesus' prayer for the unity of the church. The UCC is one of the most diverse Christian churches in the United States. The Riverside Church is a member church of the U.C.C.

BTW, Nathan, if you are not using your personal driver, maid, and concierge next Friday, could we borrow them at Atherton Baptist Homes? We are just a poor Baptist ministry and don't have some of those things you folks do over at Los Angeles Reformed Presbyterian Church.

 

[DonP]

I do think it may become, if made known, as people often do rather than discussing the matter with their elders, a matter for a presbytery to comment on if it was so out of the ordinary and unnecessary that it would become a matter of temptation for other ministers or congregants.

And I do think the maid may be pushing it, but could this not possibly be a nanny/maid if he has children? And do we know if his wife works, or is supposed to be busy co-pastoring or leading women's groups etc.

In this case it could be seen as a day care expense.

Not that I agree with any of this for a man I don't know ...

One other factor is some men have taxes taken out of their pay as employees and others do not. They take all the money and file as a contractor not an employee. This also effects how much he actually gets paid.

So yes we should use care,
But I agree with the OP that it is often challenging to see the wicked prosper, and the good with so little. But such it is in this life as we are taught.

And I do think it is good for all of us to consider seeking to pay our ministers a much larger salary than many get.

 

[Webservant]

The pastors of some of the urban churches here in Baltimore make upwards of $100,000 a year. There was one in particular in the paper whose congregation bought him a Bentley for either his birthday or his anniversary. Their building was auctioned off shortly thereafter for failure to pay the mortgage.

I certainly don't think pastors should live as paupers, especially since many of them (and their families) put in a lot of time and gave up a lot to earn their degrees - but $100,000 a year just in salary (not even including housing allowance and benefits)? I'd have to work a whole lot of hours to make that kind of money!

 

[DTK]

...you're still dodging the issue. Application must must speak to the church today, but it must also be limited and guided by the context of the passage. I don't see that care in your application. I learned my homiletics from the Rev. Dr. Hywel Rees Jones, friend and student of the late Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones. So if you have a beef with it, please take it up with him.

Btw, accusations of "egalitarianism" are convenient when you get yourself boxed into a corner. It is known in debate as throwing out a red-herring.

I am very content to grant you the last word, because I think my points have been made, and I think this, your last post, speaks for itself.

DTK

 

[Wannabee]

It is right that these things be discussed by any in the church, because it has bearing on the reputation of the kingdom, which affects us all. Ministers' salaries are not private business in as much as every facet of a minister's life should set an example to the flock, and yes, even the flock at large.

Well, then, we do disagree, and if that excuse suffices for what is going on here, then every aspect of every Christian's life is subject to your judgment.

4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Rom*14:4

If this text doesn't apply to what's going on here, then I am at a loss to find an application for it today.

DTK

David, that verse is found in the context of Paul discussing the relationship of faith, the tender conscience, and liberty from man made laws regarding food and days of observance. If we took it to restrict against the making of any and all judgments as you do here (much in the same that many in evangelical churches will interpret Matt. 7:1) we would be unable even to assert the rights of a presbytery to oversee and evaluate the life of a minister within her bounds.

It's interesting that the first paragraph, in a sense, is guilty of it's own accusation. I agree with the statement, but it's somewhat ironic.

The problem here is that the church is to judge the church. Paul makes this clear in 1 Cor 5. But we are not to pass judgment in regard to condemnation, that is for God alone. As Christians, we look to see if this situation has any biblical implications. Does this person's salary reflect poorly on Christ? But before assessing that we must first know if this person/church is truly of Christ. If it is, then we are to follow Scripture in practicing discernment and judging whether or not there is a sin issue here. If they are not, then we "put it out" as not of Christ and leave judgment to God. There really is a clear balance here.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
12For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”​

-----Added 4/23/2009 at 11:46:47 EST-----

In response to the OP:

Too much is much dependent upon the individual. Many ministers (people in general) cannot handle much money. It's been said that for every man that can handle wealth well there are many thousands who can't. This is largely proven true in America. The same holds true for a pastor. If he's a good steward and uses his resources for the furtherance of the kingdom then give him more. As long as he keeps his head and his focus on Christ and His glory, there is no such thing as "too much," unless it puts undue stress on the church body. The leadership of the church should assess the pastors ability to handle finances and give him enough to live within reasonable standards, but not so much as to engender his love of money.

MacArthur once asked his elders why they paid him so much after a substantial raise. The response was that they wanted to see what he would do with it. That's a valid response, in my opinion.

For the record, it's not an issue here at our church.

 

[Pergamum]

Two key questions:

-(1) What is the average income of his congregation? IS there a "match" so that the pastor and the people are approximately on the same level?

--(2) What is required for his ministry expenses?

We need to allow pastors to have a separate ministry account for hospitality, etc.

They do this for missionaries, pastors have similar needs.

Example: This year my W2 read 29,450 USD per year - but I have used twice this amount for ministry causes, paying medical needs, initatiating evangelism, etc. Therefore, this pay is adequate (if I can just manage to guard my own chunk and not also spend it, too, on ministry).

I would think pastors would need such a "ministry account" as well, that is adequately full as to not impair his initiative or boldness in taking some evangelistic risks.


....More bullets for front line soldiers is never a bad thing (if they are actually shooting at the enemy).

 

[jogri17]

In my opinion a pastor should be paid about the median sallary for his geographic area. Enough to be comfortable and enough to have extra to use to help others, but not enough to live without a budget. Ideally I think the church should pay for his books and health insurance. If possible having a home just for the Pastor and his family would be a great idea! That's what the odd school presbyterians used to do (even some PCUSA churches did that up to the beginning of the 20th century) and I like that idea.

 

[Pergamum]

Didn't the Apostle Paul say that the lack of money is the root of all evil?