Death and the Intermediate State!

[Grant]

Good Day,

My current view can be best summarized as follows:

When an Elect person dies they (Soul) immediately go to be in the presence of Christ. This is still a temporal condition and will be finalized after the 2nd Coming and final judgment when all will be resurrected. Then Heaven eternal.

When those outside of the blood of Christ die...they (Soul) go to a temporary place of torment (no leaving until 2nd coming). After the 2nd coming (all are resurrected) and final judgment, then they will be called to a Final judgment of condemnation and sent to the eternal lake of fire.

With my view at any given time Post-Fall there are only two destinations. Prior to the second coming the two destinations are temporary and after the 2nd coming the 2 destinations are eternalized. Please help me answer the 3 below questions:

1. Am I a heretic?

2. May I hold this view and take no exception to Westminster Standards?

3. Is this view widely held in the Reformed Presbyterian World?

Help!

 

[earl40]

So far as being "temporary" I agree in that the quick and the dead do not have a resurrected body till the last day, though so far as being in the presence of Jesus that does not change on the last day.

 

[Grant]

I think my view is in line with Westminster Standards XXXIII of the Last judgment (in my opinion).

 

[timfost]

Yep, you're a heretic.

(Just kidding!)

What I find distasteful about "Abraham's bosom" is it necessitates a tremendous amount of speculation.

I will leave the Westminster experts to answer the rest.

 

[Grant]

Yep, you're a heretic.

(Just kidding!)

What I find distasteful about "Abraham's bosom" is it necessitates a tremendous amount of speculation.

I will leave the Westminster experts to answer the rest.

So you agree with everything except Abrahams Bosom?

 

[Grant]

Alright..I removed Abraham's Bosom from the OP as to try and help keep this thread on topic.

I realize there are many great reformers who differ on how to properly exposit "Abrahams Bosom". So let's avoid that on this thread.

 

[timfost]

So you agree with everything except Abrahams Bosom?

No. I just didn't want to get off topic.

There will be a change after the second coming since death will be undone and both those in Christ and outside will be reunited with their bodies. The temporary state is a soul without a body. I don't believe scripture teaches a temporary destination.

I've heard "Abraham's bosom" used differently by multiple people, so I don't have enough information from you to know why that's your conviction. A Baptist relative explained that people who died prior to the crucifixion had to go to a temporary location since Christ did not yet die. My response was "by what righteousness was Abraham justified? Christ's merits are not bound in time." Again, if need more information as to what you mean by the term.

 

[Grant]

No. I just didn't want to get off topic.

There will be a change after the second coming since death will be undone and both those in Christ and outside will be reunited with their bodies. The temporary state is a soul without a body. I don't believe scripture teaches a temporary destination.

I've heard "Abraham's bosom" used differently by multiple people, so I don't have enough information from you to know why that's your conviction. A Baptist relative explained that people who died prior to the crucifixion had to go to a temporary location since Christ did not yet die. My response was "by what righteousness was Abraham justified? Christ's merits are not bound in time." Again, if need more information as to what you mean by the term.

I mean it in the since (As Calvin) that when the elect die we are with Christ (our souls)...which could be associated with Abraham in a sense because he is a head example of that faith (Calvin says it better than me). But lets not get to off-topic on the bosom.

haha I do not agree with your baptist relative.

 

[earl40]

Wherever Jesus is, heaven is.