Christians and alcohol

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AV1611

Puritan Board Senior
Are these claims correct?

1. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine. The English word wine originally had two meanings also - unfermented juice or alcoholic drink.

2. In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.
 
Are there any here who oppose the consumption of alcohol? If so how would you respond to these:

Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs “drink wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:11 encourages “yes, come buy wine and milk…”

http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-alcohol.html
 
At the wedding feast at Cana, the steward comments that, traditionally the "cheap stuff" is rolled out at the end when people can't tell, as readily, the quality of the wine.

Yet Jesus made wine for this crowd.

Christ was repeatedly accused of being a drunkard. I wonder if the Pharisees were prohibitionists.
 
AV1611 said:
Are these claims correct?

1. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine. The English word wine originally had two meanings also - unfermented juice or alcoholic drink.

2. In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.
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The teaching that is proposed here by some of the brethren, when examined closely is absurd. If what they teach is so, then the people labored all year in thier vineyards so they could have grape juice for about three days a year. The juice begins to ferment in around 4 days. The Lord drank fermented wine at the last supper because it would have been impossible (without a miracle performed by him) to have grape juice at that time of year. They could have had plain juice only once a year at harvest time and then for just a few days.
The modern day temperance movement, which is abstinance and not temperance, is a product of bad teaching that has come around since the later part of the 19th and early part of the 20th centuries as far as I can tell. It is extremely popular among antinomian fundamentalists and hyper arminian holiness types.
 
BTW, good morning brother Richard and brother Rich. I hope you have a wonderfull Sabbath day and that our Lord pours out many blessings upon your families today. The same for any reading this thread.
 
Blueridge reformer said:
BTW, good morning brother Richard and brother Rich. I hope you have a wonderfull Sabbath day and that our Lord pours out many blessings upon your families today. The same for any reading this thread.
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Thank you James. I had a great Lord's Day. May God's Word richly bless you today.
 
Dustin,
you're new here so I'm going to cut you some slack on that. But don't test me, I might be the meanest moderator on board. Take whatever stand on baptism that you find meaningful but don't poke fun at the art of good beer discovery.

Blessings new friend, and welcome.


JollySpectre9 said:
BobVigneault said:
I strongly oppose the drinking of bad or cheap beer, does that count?
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What a great quote! I have go thirds on that! So by good beer, do you mean Old Milwaukee, or Natie Lite!
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Excellent points here James. :up:

Blueridge reformer said:
The teaching that is proposed here by some of the brethren, when examined closely is absurd. If what they teach is so, then the people labored all year in thier vineyards so they could have grape juice for about three days a year. The juice begins to ferment in around 4 days. The Lord drank fermented wine at the last supper because it would have been impossible (without a miracle performed by him) to have grape juice at that time of year. They could have had plain juice only once a year at harvest time and then for just a few days.
The modern day temperance movement, which is abstinance and not temperance, is a product of bad teaching that has come around since the later part of the 19th and early part of the 20th centuries as far as I can tell. It is extremely popular among antinomian fundamentalists and hyper arminian holiness types.
Click to expand...
 
I oppose alcohol for my own use since I am a recovering alcoholic, I do believe in moderation for the Church since she is a witness, studies have shown a disturbing trend in North America and the UK, a trend towards being alcoholic societies. Since I Tee-Total, some might discount me and say I want some prohibition or something, not so, I simply feel the people of God bought with the blood of Christ should be very careful in the use of intoxicating beverages.:2cents:
 
AV1611 said:
Are there any here who oppose the consumption of alcohol? If so how would you respond to these:

Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs “drink wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:11 encourages “yes, come buy wine and milk…”

http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-alcohol.html
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The way I oppose Russian roulette, I oppose the use of alcohol. But, guess what? Nobody cares.
 
I think bwsmith is perhaps saying that for someone to drink is like playing Russian roulette in that if they take a drink they may find that they are an alcoholic and thus eventually die.....or something like that. Please excuse me if I'm way off the mark, bwsmith.
 
Ivan said:
I think bwsmith is perhaps saying that for someone to drink is like playing Russian roulette in that if they take a drink they may find that they are an alcoholic and thus eventually die.....or something like that. Please excuse me if I'm way off the mark, bwsmith.
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I am assuming that that is where she is going with it as well. I would suggest that if you take a group of say 100 people, a certain number WILL become alcoholics...........don't believe me? Ask a Medical Doctor or drug and alcohol professional with a lot of time in their field. Not an opinion......a fact.
 
joshua said:
And such people who are unable to control their consumption ought avoid it. But this is not a rule against those who're able to consume alcohol for enjoyment and to the glory of God and can't be imposed universally since no such prohibition exists in Scripture.
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Brother if you read my first post on the issue you will see I agree with you 100%, heck........I miss Scotch at times! Why I can't drink it.
 
Fingolfin said:
I am assuming that that is where she is going with it as well. I would suggest that if you take a group of say 100 people, a certain number WILL become alcoholics...........don't believe me? Ask a Medical Doctor or drug and alcohol professional with a lot of time in their field. Not an opinion......a fact.
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No, that's actually an opinion that could never, ever be substantiated as an absolute fact.
 
Fingolfin said:
I am assuming that that is where she is going with it as well. I would suggest that if you take a group of say 100 people, a certain number WILL become alcoholics...........don't believe me? Ask a Medical Doctor or drug and alcohol professional with a lot of time in their field. Not an opinion......a fact.
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Take a group of 100 people and let them eat and about 40 of them become gluttons:

http://www.solideogloria.com/article/2007/01/03/04.51.14
 
Fingolfin said:
I oppose alcohol for my own use since I am a recovering alcoholic, I do believe in moderation for the Church since she is a witness, studies have shown a disturbing trend in North America and the UK, a trend towards being alcoholic societies. Since I Tee-Total, some might discount me and say I want some prohibition or something, not so, I simply feel the people of God bought with the blood of Christ should be very careful in the use of intoxicating beverages.:2cents:
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I stand by this, I ONLY beg caution on the part of the Church. Moderation is a commandment!:book2:
 
Fingolfin said:
I stand by this, I ONLY beg caution on the part of the Church. Moderation is a commandment!:book2:
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Well, sure. Moderation is one thing. Opposition to alchohol (as to food) is another. As I've pointed out before, gluttony and drunkenness are twin sins but, hypocritically, many practice the former but only worry about the latter.

I say do both with moderation and to the glory of God. If one abstains from alchohol or certain types of food then so be it but it is not a maxim and to make it normative for Christian living is a great sin.
 
joshua said:
No reason to get riled up, Brother. Seriously...all David is saying, and without me intending to elicit further heat, is that such an opinion literally cannot be substantiated as fact. There's no way you could take all the possible people in the world past, present, and future, split them up into groups of 100 and prove that at least one in each group would definitely become an alcoholic. That's all he means. He's not trying to make things personal.
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:up: Thanks, Josh. You said that much better than I could've.
 
joshua said:
No reason to get riled up, Brother. Seriously...all David is saying, and without me intending to elicit further heat, is that such an opinion literally cannot be substantiated as fact. There's no way you could take all the possible people in the world past, present, and future, split them up into groups of 100 and prove that at least one in each group would definitely become an alcoholic. That's all he means. He's not trying to make things personal.
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Josh, my friend all I am saying is long term study and research has been done from Harvard Medical on down, the long term research exists. That is all I am saying and is the only reason I urge care, if I did not love and care for my brothers and sisters in Christ.......I would not care. :handshake:
 
So I am a Pharisee...............for urging my Brethren to be careful? Thanks Josh, I never did say "a Christian can never drink", you are putting words in my mouth.
 
joshua said:
Brother M., Calm down. I did not call you a Pharisee. Sheesh. You're way too defensive. I simply copied and pasted an article that I thought would be helpful. Would you please show me how I have brought offense, because that has been the last (non-existent!) of my intentions.
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Josh, I am sorry that I misunderstood the intent of your post and article. I did (past tense) get offended that you were reffering to me as a Pharisee. Sorry our signals crossed.
 
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