alcoholism a reason to disfellowship?

[Eoghan]

I Corinthians 5 deals with a specific case of immorality but Paul widens it out. In doing so he would have us dis-fellowship drunkards. Now this does not short circuit normal attempts to bring the individual back but at the end it is disfellowshiping. Would that prevent them attending church?
[BIBLE]1 Corinthians 5:11[/BIBLE]

I see problems with implementing this but nothing insurmountable. It does give a very different view however from the view that alcoholism is a disease. Here in the UK alcoholics get an extra £20 a week because of their "disability"(?).

 

[Hemustincrease]

 

[KMK]

According to 1 Cor 5, we are to disassociate ourselves from someone who claims to be a Christian, but refuses to repent from drunkenness. It has nothing to do with 'alcoholism'.

 

[Tirian]

Folks don't ever give up on someone with an alcohol problem. Tough love may be required but it should be administered face to face in the "trench" with them with tears - not piously from the side.

 

[Scott1]

Drinking alcohol to excess is a sin. Giving oneself over to a pattern of it amounts to walking a disorderly life pattern.

Both are subject to church discipline, albeit more or less mild forms of it.

Sitting under the authoritative teaching of the Word (such as I Cor. 5:11) is part of "discipline." But when God causes the lifestyle pattern to become known, then forms of discipline such as suspension from the Lord's Supper may apply.

Disfellowshipping? If that means excommunication, there would have to be a lot of process before that happens. Anyone who seems to be trying to overcome the sin is in fellowship, and ought be.

It's only impenitence, hardening over time that can result in a declaration to treat the person "as if" a nonbeliever. And then excommunicate (disfellowship) them. It's not a unilateral decision.

 

[Miss Marple]

I reject the disease model of alcoholism because God does not characterize having a disease as a sin.

If being drunk continually is a sin, then it's not a disease.

Certainly there can be diseases associated with it, like liver failure. That's a disease.

Liver failure is not a sin. Drunkenness is. Call it alcoholism; that doesn't change what it is.

I sympathize with those who crave alcohol. I am sure it is very difficult. But I have craved a lot of different sins in my lifetime. I have craved killing someone, to a degree, for example. Yet I do not call that a disease.

 

[Jack K]

Based on the sins listed in that verse, if we excommunicated everyone who struggled with those things we might have to excommunicate most of the church! Clearly, Paul does not mean a person who struggles against those sins but still fails often. Rather, he means a person who refuses to struggle, denies his need for repentance, and revels in evil things. This is clear from the context of the passage. Paul is speaking about arrogant people who refuse to accept instruction in these matters (see 4:18-19).

 

[GloriousBoaz]

I agree with Jack here I remember Paul Washer once saying in quoting a hypothetical person saying " Well maybe during the worship you were thinking 'Does God even hear my worship even now I am struggling with lustful thoughts, does God receive anything from me?'" Washer says "From you God receives much, because by your own admission: 'blessed are those who mourn for you shall be comforted' I am speaking to those of you out there who listen to the preaching of the word of God and sit there cold as a stone, not caring about Gods ways or struggling against sin."

 

[Hemustincrease]

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[JoannaV]

You can be an alcoholic without being drunk. The idea that alcoholism necessitates drunkenness is one that prevents some people from realising they have a problem. "I don't get drunk so I'm fine."

 

[Eoghan]

I am stunned that "to a man" the hard line on homosexuals causes all my commentators to wax lyrical, showing the distinction between the temptation and someone living in an openly homosexual relationship for example and someone who is celibate but has the inclination which they resist in Christ. Forgive me for speaking as a Scot but I would have thought alcohol was more of a problem than homosexuality and worthy of just as many pages in our cultural context. It was a real problem in the Western Isles and the Council job application (as a Biology teacher) required me to reveal if I had any alcohol problem!

Isn't homosexuality the easy target. Alcohol abuse and greed are just as easy to document but are they subject to the same scrutiny.

 

[Miss Marple]

The Bible doesn't list alcoholism as a sin. It lists drunkenness as a sin. Right?

Nor is it a sin to be tempted (after all Jesus was tempted,) but to actually indulge.

Homosexuality, drunkenness, rage. . . the temptation is not the sin, but the indulgence of it is.

Eoghan, as to homosexuality, the difference as I see it is that the world acknowledges that there is something wrong, dysfunctional, immoral, destructive about a person who is drunk; at least usually.

Whereas we are being told from pillar to post that homosexuality is somehow a positive and enlightened thing to do, and to oppose it is to be a hater.

 

[THE W]

When we start seeing drunkard advocacy groups for drunkard rights, drunkard pride parades, and lobbying to make churches ordain drunkard officers in the church we will then have much more to say about them.

As of now, they know their place.

The scripture seems clear to me. Those who rebel against God through their drunkard habits should be ex-communicated.

 

[Tirian]

The scripture seems clear to me. Those who rebel against God through their drunkard habits should be ex-communicated.

Absolutely - the last thing we want are sinners coming into the church!

 

[THE W]

The scripture seems clear to me. Those who rebel against God through their drunkard habits should be ex-communicated.

Absolutely - the last thing we want are sinners coming into the church!

Not those who rebel in their sin.

"Rebel" being the key word here.

 

[GloriousBoaz]

3 to 4% of Americans are homosexuals. 8 to 10% are alcoholics.

So I was wondering, in my thinking alcoholism and drunkardness is the same thing just different terms for different time periods. Is there a distinction I am not aware of?