Worship At Saddleback

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Blueridge Believer

Blueridge Believer

Puritan Board Professor
I watched this. I really don't know what to say.

[video=google;1122526581190505259]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1122526581190505259[/video]
 
I say it would be great if Rick and his Church actually believed half of the words in the chorus of that song. Sadly, due to the fruit of their Arminian theology, I don't think they do.
 
Looks like how Brittany Spears would dance if she were on the stage. :um: Talk about "entertainment" invading the church . . .
 
Somehow brethren, when I think about the Son of God being whipped, beaten and nailed to a cross, I just don't feel like dancing.
 
Blueridge reformer said:
Somehow brethren, when I think about the Son of God being whipped, beaten and nailed to a cross, I just don't feel like dancing.
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What about when you think of the incredible grace and mercy of God on you and I, wretched sinners all?

What about when you think about the awesomeness of his sovereignty and how he still has the whole universe in his hands and is still in control?

Does anything about God and the Bible make you happy? It does for me.
 
Bandguy said:
What about when you think of the incredible grace and mercy of God on you and I, wretched sinners all?

What about when you think about the awesomeness of his sovereignty and how he still has the whole universe in his hands and is still in control?

Does anything about God and the Bible make you happy? It does for me.
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Yes there are things that make me happy brother! But that display of a sex dance looked more like a bunch of jungle heathen. Is there anything out of bound these days?
 
trevorjohnson said:
Yes, I am all for a Godly happiness.

But a certain atmosphere must be cultivated in church - of soberness and seriousness.


Truthfully, if this group wanted to dance and sing outside of church that would be great. Despite some "worldly" dance moves, they seemed fairly modestly dressed and the song was a good song. It is not heretical or blatantly immodest...it just doesn't fit worship. It is good entertainment - that's all.

It looked like a rock convert to me. I am glad for the enthusiasm and the joy of the song, but another time would be more appropriate - rather than in church.
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in my opinion, this is turning into a thread of man made regulations on how the Spirit is allowed to move in the heart of worship. I do, however, agree that what Saddleback is most likely doing is nothing more than entertainment designed to convince non-believers that Church is worldly and fun. I don't agree that it is inherently evil and innapropriate to dance in worship.
 
I dunno - but I was honored to have worshiped with my brothers and sisters in Uganda - they danced - and so did I - in the jungle. And it was awesome! Praise God!
 
trevorjohnson said:
Bandguy:



I would agree that we do not have a list of do's and dont's for the Spirit to follow...other than what the Spirit himelf gave.




Here in West Java, where there are few Christians I have seen a meeting of Christians here when some traveled all day to get to the meeting place. One man walked over a mountain and started at 3am - 8 hours later he arrived to worship.

When the music started, a few people began to cry and some got up and spontanously started dancing for joy.


I cannot see this as sinful either, but their joy at meeting was exhibited.






But, you could see a difference in this than a planned dance choreography with light effects and big amplifiers, right?




What distinguishes the work of the Spirit from entertainment or emotional excess? You yourself classified Saddleback as entertainment.

How would you distinguish between joyful dancing in the Lord or a holy enthusiasm in worship and mere excess or entertainment?



Trevor
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100% agree with you here. I have, however, seen too many conversations that start with a blanket condemnation of a certain kind of music or dancing. Not the reasoning that went into it, but that it happened. I think sometimes, Reformed folk go too far the other way in response to the evil we see in the world and in many Churches today. The violent anti-Israel reaction, for example, to dispensationalism. Or, calling all dancing sinful and innappropiate in reaction to the market driven Saddlbacks of the world. Both extremes are, in my opinion, not of God and man made.
 
trevorjohnson said:
Truthfully, if this group wanted to dance and sing outside of church that would be great. Despite some "worldly" dance moves, they seemed fairly modestly dressed and the song was a good song. It is not heretical or blatantly immodest...it just doesn't fit worship. It is good entertainment - that's all.

It looked like a rock convert to me. I am glad for the enthusiasm and the joy of the song, but another time would be more appropriate - rather than in church.
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Why doesn't it fit worship? How can you say that they weren't doing what they were doing with 'a sincere desire to honor God'? Of course, that's a rhetorical question. Since you can't say that with sureity, which standard are you using to say that what they were doing was inappropriate?
 
If this is meant to attract the world because it is "cool," then they must have targeting the lame, cheesy portion of the world. My eyes water during this refuse as a result of how dreadfully lame it is.
 
WrittenFromUtopia said:
If this is meant to attract the world because it is "cool," then they must have targeting the lame, cheesy portion of the world. My eyes water during this refuse as a result of how dreadfully lame it is.
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I agree that it is, in my opinion, lame. It does seem to, however, appeal to the teens in Orange County, California. I have always said that Californians were quite lame.:rofl:
 
Bandguy said:
I agree that it is, in my opinion, lame. It does seem to, however, appeal to the teens in Orange County, California. I have always said that Californians were quite lame.:rofl:
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Yeah, but these are the kind of teens that are looking to fit in and wear bright orange t-shirts a lot.
 
Originally Posted by Blueridge reformer
Somehow brethren, when I think about the Son of God being whipped, beaten and nailed to a cross, I just don't feel like dancing.
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What about when you think of the Son of God risen from the grave and ascending to sit at the right hand of God the Father.
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(My apologies in advance, Romans922, if this was not your intent.)

Can we stop insinuating that this guy doesn't love God, just because thoughts of Jesus' crucifixion cause him to be sober-minded? That's what they are supposed to do, to teach us to hate sin, among other things.

I've attended a Saddleback church, and I found the solos and the dancing to be highly inappropriate at times, and somewhat sexual, in imitation of secular pop videos.
 
turmeric said:
(My apologies in advance, Romans922, if this was not your intent.)

Can we stop insinuating that this guy doesn't love God, just because thoughts of Jesus' crucifixion cause him to be sober-minded? That's what they are supposed to do, to teach us to hate sin, among other things.

I've attended a Saddleback church, and I found the solos and the dancing to be highly inappropriate at times, and somewhat sexual, in imitation of secular pop videos.
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Nobody intimated he didn't love God. We did intimate that he takes one aspect of the Bible, reacts to it appropriately, and then makes a man-made legalistic argument that this is the way all Christians should react when in Churches under all circumstances. We are not commanded to act as if we are constantly at a funeral for our Lord and Savior. There should also be joy at his ressurection, his sovereignty, and his grace and mercy.
 
I really don't know where to start. Is Rick Warren the antichrist? No. Is Saddleback seeker sensitive and market driven? Yes. Paul wrote, 1 Corinthians 14:40 40 But let all things be done properly and in an orderly manner. Where the regulative principle lacks this passage helps. I realize 1 Cor. 14 is governing the use of spiritual gifts, but worship brings the church before God. Is there time for solemn contemplation? Yes. Brokeness over sin? Certainly. Joy in the work of the risen Christ? Amen! Yes! Besides practicing correct theology we ought to practice godliness in our worship. W.C.F. and congregational churches will have different practices but they must be God-centric.
 
BaptistInCrisis said:
I really don't know where to start. Is Rick Warren the antichrist? No. Is Saddleback seeker sensitive and market driven? Yes. Paul wrote, 1 Corinthians 14:40 40 But let all things be done properly and in an orderly manner. Where the regulative principle lacks this passage helps. I realize 1 Cor. 14 is governing the use of spiritual gifts, but worship brings the church before God. Is there time for solemn contemplation? Yes. Brokeness over sin? Certainly. Joy in the work of the risen Christ? Amen! Yes! Besides practicing correct theology we ought to practice godliness in our worship. W.C.F. and congregational churches will have different practices but they must be God-centric.
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It seemed pretty well-ordered to me. I mean, did you see that spot-on choreography? :lol:
 
Geezer alert!
They used to have a word back in my day that described this stuff...it was the word "tacky"

That looked like it was choreographed by Corky St. Clair from Waiting for Guffman.
 
Bandguy said:
I would argue that the two are not mutually exclusive, but go hand in hand. Practicing Godliness in our worship begins with having correct theology.
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I actually meant the same thing. I wanted to make the math look like 1+1=1.
 
turmeric said:
(My apologies in advance, Romans922, if this was not your intent.)

Can we stop insinuating that this guy doesn't love God, just because thoughts of Jesus' crucifixion cause him to be sober-minded? That's what they are supposed to do, to teach us to hate sin, among other things.

I've attended a Saddleback church, and I found the solos and the dancing to be highly inappropriate at times, and somewhat sexual, in imitation of secular pop videos.
Click to expand...

This is absolutely not my intent towards the person I was writing to above. I agree with His conclusion to the crucifixtion, but I think that the crucifixtion is something to be praised and cause joy in you, I also think that the resurrection and ascention should be something of a joy maker. After all it is the gospel, without which you cannot be saved. Let us be joyful that God has saved us and He has done it through His Son.

Now does this mean we dance in church, no, I don't think so, but who says we can't do it by ourselves.
 
I almost wish I hadn't posted this brethren. My intent was not to offend anyone, or to try to bind anyones conscience. I guess living kind of isolated in the Blueridge Mnts. cuts you off from the "cutting edge" so to speak. My biggest concern with this kind of music in the church is personal. If you take away the lyrics, it sounds just like something you here in a bar or dance hall.
And dance they did. To me it seems like the worlds methods and music are being brought into worship and it seems, in my opinion, to make the Gospel of Christ a trivial thing. To me, it looked lewd and there seemed to be no fear of God in it. Please excuse my narrow mindedness, but for me I still like it the old time way.
God bless you all this Lord's Day.
 
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