What a tragedy

[kevin.carroll]

Hello all.

Like many of you, I was invited to join the Reformation Superhighway (I haven't) that grew out of the very ugly and public Way/McMahon spat.

It appears the spirit of the fight lives on over there and the invectives continue to be hurled.

Frankly I think it's time both of them just as publicly apologized to one another and to the PB members for their lack of charity (even if it was eloquent on both their parts) towards one another.

Just my . I await being banned.

Or replied to.

 

[JeremyConrad]

FYI:

My cousin started The Reformation Superhighway, and he wanted me to tell you all that he did NOT start it because of the Way/McMahon spat.

That was an individual consideration that contributed to his decision to start the new board, but it was NOT the primary reason, by any stretch.

As for the main reasons he started the board, I don't feel at liberty to go into detail here.

I just wanted to set the record straight . . . the Way/McMahon spat is NOT why The Reformation Superhighway was started.

 

[gwine]

Methinks that there is more to it than that, since the owner of the new board is someone who no longer is allowed on this board. But like you say, it is a sad day at red rock.

 

[JeremyConrad]

Originally posted by kevin.carroll

I was invited to join the Reformation Superhighway . . . that grew out of the very ugly and public Way/McMahon spat.

It appears the spirit of the fight lives on over there and the invectives continue to be hurled.

FYI:

My cousin posted the following over at the new board, regarding the Way/McMahon spat:

I really wish I had not started this thread. It was wrong of me to do so. I have since heard from two independent sources that there is a WHOLE LOT MORE to the story between Way & McMahon that hasn't even been made publically known.


Pastorway did not ask to be banned from the PB. Many of the facts behind this debate are unseen and remain behind the scenes for a reason. Speculation & gossip cannot serve to edify the church, Matt, the Purtian Board, pastorway, or anyone else. Matthew 18 does not apply to this situation since the initial complaint was not about a brother sinning. 1 Timothy 5:19-20 gives the Scriptural foundation for the initiation of this discussion. Let us be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. In the meantime, if you have anything to say, just pray!


Please forgive me for even starting this thread in the first place. This thread is nothing more than gossip, and gossip is a sin. I was wrong.

Thread closed!

I agree my cousin was wrong to start that thread. But at least he repented of it.

 

[gwine]

Originally posted by JeremyConrad
FYI:

My cousin started The Reformation Superhighway, and he wanted me to tell you all that he did NOT start it because of the Way/McMahon spat.

That was an individual consideration that contributed to his decision to start the new board, but it was NOT the primary reason, by any stretch.

As for the main reasons he started the board, I don't feel at liberty to go into detail here.

I just wanted to set the record straight . . . the Way/McMahon spat is NOT why The Reformation Superhighway was started.

Regardless of the reason for the new board, I think it is cowardly for either you or your cousin to invite us on the side, bypassing the regular Puritan Board. Maybe you should have posted a thread announciing the board - maybe the owners would have not allowed it to be posted. That is their choice and I hoped they would have responded favorably.

As I just posted and I will say in another way, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

 

[BobVigneault]

Jeremy I wasn't even aware you had a presence here. Ten percent of your posts now have been made after you've said goodbye. You didn't just say good-bye, you threw a hissy fit. Why? What compels you and other members to have to make one last hissy fit stand? I've always made it a point to show God's grace on this board. There are many, many others like me. You may disagree with a few here but you impune all of us by having such a grand and boisterous tantrum before you leave. If you have a problem with Matt then it's not hard to get his email address. God's grace to you friend.

 

[Cuirassier]

I don't generally see myself as gullible or naive, but I feel so dumb!

I too got an invite - because it came shortly on the heels of my post regarding baptism, I thought it was an honest attempt for a paedo brother to share his paedo point of view with me. It would now appear that there was more to that U2U ....

I feel duped ...

dl



[Edited on 4-20-2006 by Cuirassier]

 

[ReformedWretch]

I hope everyone can live in peace. I am thrilled to have more than one Christian message board that I feel comfortable posting on. I LOVE this place but it was the only place to interact and when it's slow here it's kind of a bummer for me. Now I have two places to read and interact. I think that's awesome!

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I am not scared to tell anyone about the new discussion board. I also visit the Reformed Reader's discussion board. In fact I haven't mentioned the new one to anyone except Ryan and Rich Barcellos. Each discussion board has it's own nature and constitution. One needs to respect and be true to the rules if one is going to partake. I am not FV nor NPP but I am willing to listen and discuss stuff. I am not sure what is going to happen. If it is like the Reformed Reader it will be good and and open. Civil discussion will take place and abberant views will be dealt with. I believe Truth prevails. On the Reformed Reader if heresy is propagated and the discussion is starting to go in circles the person propagating the heresy eventually is banned. It has been very good. I have seen others benefit from this stuff. I hope everyone can be encouraged and pursue the Kingdom of God. It is not an us against them thing. We are all in this thing together. Christ is the Head.
For Christ Crown and Covenant, Randy

 

[BobVigneault]

"It is not an us against them thing. We are all in this thing together. Christ is the Head."

I would like to believe that is the case brother Randy, but the spirit of unity is not served by the repeated tantrums that the 'them' that were once 'us' seem compelled to throw while slamming the door on their way out.

I haven't seen the Reformed Reader but I'm willing to take a guess that it's not purposely set up to be a word for word, format for format replica of the Puritan Board. There was some intelligent design involved there and perhaps a spitefully intelligent design. I'm speculating ofcourse.

I appreciate Joseph's attempts to keep his board from becoming a PB bashing fest, but it's sad that he has to even make it an issue. Joseph is no fool, he knows what he's doing. Call me overly cautious but I am very suspicious of his motives.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

As well, joining the board after being banned is akin to lying; what does this say for Martin Marprelate's witness who is actually Steve Owen who was banned more than a year ago???

It's sad.

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by Scott Bushey]

 

[turmeric]

I had never heard of Jeremy Conrad or seen any of his posts until I received a u2u the other day...is Martin Marprelate in this too? I guress it's to be expected, I seem to recall some youngster (who I hope have learned better!) who kept trying to get back onto RaptureReady when they'd already been "left behind" several times by that board.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by turmeric
I had never heard of Jeremy Conrad or seen any of his posts until I received a u2u the other day...is Martin Marprelate in this too? I guress it's to be expected, I seem to recall some youngster (who I hope have learned better!) who kept trying to get back onto RaptureReady when they'd already been "left behind" several times by that board.

Meg,
Sadly enough, MM is actually Steve Owen, a member we banned over a year ago. He came in as a sheep in wolves clothing.

 

[CDM]

Originally posted by turmeric
I had never heard of Jeremy Conrad or seen any of his posts until I received a u2u the other day...is Martin Marprelate in this too? I guress it's to be expected, I seem to recall some youngster (who I hope have learned better!) who kept trying to get back onto RaptureReady when they'd already been "left behind" several times by that board.

I received a U2U from Jeremy Conrad too about his cousin Joseph's new site.

 

[LarryCook]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Originally posted by turmeric
I had never heard of Jeremy Conrad or seen any of his posts until I received a u2u the other day...is Martin Marprelate in this too? I guress it's to be expected, I seem to recall some youngster (who I hope have learned better!) who kept trying to get back onto RaptureReady when they'd already been "left behind" several times by that board.

Meg,
Sadly enough, MM is actually Steve Owen, a member we banned over a year ago. He came in as a sheep in wolves clothing.

Based on the posts by Martin MGate, I wish they were all that OBVIOUS. Further, this is coming from Mr. I Don't Know Anything About What's Goin On Here.

Larry



Edited for an unnecessary personal attack; even when discussing the tragedies of deception and un-Christlike motives on the parts of others, we should do so in a charitable spirit and fashion.

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by Me Died Blue]

I humbly accept the charge and apologize to Steve and the board for my lack of charity and discretion...Larry

[Edited on 4-21-2006 by LarryCook]

 

[nicnap]

Man, I rarely post, and I have the PB set as my home page, but I am just now learning of this stuff. I have joined the other board because I was invited (got the email/U2U, but didn't pay it much attention), but this is still my primary board...could someone link me to posts that are the cause of this stirred up pot (only if they are edifying...no name calling or bashing, etc.). I must have been asleep or something.

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Philippians 2:3

I am for this whole situation.

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by nicnap]

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

does it seem strange that biblelighthouse and jeremy conrad have similar signatures?

Joseph M. Gleason
* Husband of Amy --- Father of Katie, Kimberly, Andrea, and Julie
* UNIX Administrator at Experian
* McKinney Bible Church parishoner for 5 years and counting
* Student at Westminster Theological Seminary --- Dallas, TX
* Manager of Covenant Theology section at Monergism.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeremy S. Conrad
*Colorado Springs, CO
*WCF
*Husband to Christa and father to Joshua, and newborn Landon.
*System Administrator
*Village Seven Presbyterian Church

Reformed, Paedobaptist, Covenant Theologian

whos to say that jeremyconrad isnt joseph himself and not his cousin??

 

[Robin]

Originally posted by JeremyConrad
FYI:

My cousin started The Reformation Superhighway, and he wanted me to tell you all that he did NOT start it because of the Way/McMahon spat.

That was an individual consideration that contributed to his decision to start the new board, but it was NOT the primary reason, by any stretch.

As for the main reasons he started the board, I don't feel at liberty to go into detail here.

I just wanted to set the record straight . . . the Way/McMahon spat is NOT why The Reformation Superhighway was started.

That being the case, Jeremy....there are ungodly, Christ-dis-honoring expressions, there.

This is a great grief to see - especially in a public-placarded forum.

I can understand Pastor Way's position and Matt's. I don't think the Puritans are IT -- neither do I think Pastor Way is too far off from his concern about "virtual church fellowship" Etc.

We are all sinners - as we know.

I think Dr. McMahon has done right to honor the responsibilities of his denomination. And I think Pastor Way has some very meaningful insights.

The PB is not a local church, under the rule of church government -- yet it belongs to Matt and his freedom of speech. Think of it as "Matt's house" if you will....

Being a guest in this house calls upon certain courtesies.

So far, the RSH seems to be a venue for sinful venting. I see no consideration for what the Bible teaches about discretion; honor; mending disagreements, Etc. The whole tone (so far) exhalts slander; misinformation; backbiting.

I hope and pray we will all be mindful of the way we represent Christ to a watching world.

In humility and hope,

Robin

 

[blhowes]

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
whos to say that jeremyconrad isnt joseph himself and not his cousin??

You can't fool me. You purposely didn't use that format in your signature to throw us all off. Are you really Matthew Cook? Come on, Joseph, fess up!

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Robin

Originally posted by JeremyConrad
FYI:

My cousin started The Reformation Superhighway, and he wanted me to tell you all that he did NOT start it because of the Way/McMahon spat.

That was an individual consideration that contributed to his decision to start the new board, but it was NOT the primary reason, by any stretch.

As for the main reasons he started the board, I don't feel at liberty to go into detail here.

I just wanted to set the record straight . . . the Way/McMahon spat is NOT why The Reformation Superhighway was started.

That being the case, Jeremy....there are ungodly, Christ-dis-honoring expressions, there.

This is a great grief to see - especially in a public-placarded forum.

I can understand Pastor Way's position and Matt's. I don't think the Puritans are IT -- neither do I think Pastor Way is too far off from his concern about "virtual church fellowship" Etc.

We are all sinners - as we know.

I think Dr. McMahon has done right to honor the responsibilities of his denomination. And I think Pastor Way has some very meaningful insights.

The PB is not a local church, under the rule of church government -- yet it belongs to Matt and his freedom of speech. Think of it as "Matt's house" if you will....

Being a guest in this house calls upon certain courtesies.

So far, the RSH seems to be a venue for sinful venting. I see no consideration for what the Bible teaches about discretion; honor; mending disagreements, Etc. The whole tone (so far) exhalts slander; misinformation; backbiting.

I hope and pray we will all be mindful of the way we represent Christ to a watching world.

In humility and hope,

Robin

Hi Robin,
Thanks for your post. Just wanted to state that this board does come under oversight of our governing body, the RPCGA.

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by blhowes

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
whos to say that jeremyconrad isnt joseph himself and not his cousin??

You can't fool me. You purposely didn't use that format in your signature to throw us all off. Are you really Matthew Cook? Come on, Joseph, fess up!

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Originally posted by JeremyConrad
FYI:

My cousin started The Reformation Superhighway, and he wanted me to tell you all that he did NOT start it because of the Way/McMahon spat.

That was an individual consideration that contributed to his decision to start the new board, but it was NOT the primary reason, by any stretch.

As for the main reasons he started the board, I don't feel at liberty to go into detail here.

I just wanted to set the record straight . . . the Way/McMahon spat is NOT why The Reformation Superhighway was started.

I can vouch for this personally. Joseph Gleason did not start the Reformation Superhighway as a direct result of the McMahon/Way controversy. (controversy?)

I received an email from a PCA pastor who had received this Newsletter and asked me "Did you see this "poo-poo"?"

I have.

Gleason, in his own words, bears out why he started another message board from his newsletter that he sent out:

He says it is a "new, better, Reformed internet forum."

He compares it to the Puritanboard: "If you like the PuritanBoard, then you will LOVE the Reformation Superhighway!"

He says, "But a number of people, including me, are not completely happy with the *administrators* of the Puritanboard."

Why is he not happy?

He doesn't like our theology?

He says, "They say a lot of independent Reformed Baptist pastors are "not really ordained" because they didn't receive their ordination from the "right" group of people. They say Reformed Baptists aren't "really" Reformed at all. They say Doug Wilson is a "heretic", and that anyone who defends him will get kicked off the board. They say that "real Christians" will always become Calvinists, and that Christians who stay Arminian in their theology are not going to Heaven at all. Etc., etc., etc. . . ."

Interesting. This, being a form of hate mail, not only places these things a poor context, but blatantly misrepresents the "Admins" views.

Personally, I know of no place on the board that the Admins ever said, "Christians who stay Arminian in their theology are not going to Heaven at all."

I know of no place on the board that the Admins said, "They say that "real Christians" will always become Calvinists." (Sounds akin, though, to the propaganda from the McMahon/Way controversy.)

He says, "So, I have created a new Reformed internet forum, called "The Reformation Superhighway". It has much of the same look and feel and forum categories as the Puritanboard..."

BUT

He says, "but none of the moderators!"

HMMM. Sounds like he is bitter to me.

He says, "On THIS board, RESPECT and UNITY-in-the-midst-of-disagreement will be of foremost concern. I will choose moderators on the basis of their willingness to exercise CHARITY to those who disagree with them. (I myself have had to learn some hard lessons in this area . . . please forgive me for the many times I have failed to exercise charity!)"

He says, "Nobody will get treated as a second-class-citizen for being a Baptist. No one will get banned from the board for defending Doug Wilson. And while I myself am a 5-point Calvinist, I fully believe that Arminians will still go to Heaven, because they do trust in Christ."

He says, "So, here's why I am letting you know about this before the general public does, and here is what I need from you...."

Can you say "proselytizing?"

He says, "Please just help me get this thing off the ground. I think it will be a very positive thing for the Christian community online."

Yes, follow an embittered man off to his own creation which he will appoint and create his own board - the very thing he despised in the newsletter.

He even cut and pasted our board rules and used it for his own board (even though they are copywritten for the PB!)!

Pray for him. Things like this should never take place.



[Edited on 4-20-2006 by C. Matthew McMahon]

 

[blhowes]

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist

Seriously, though, that is pretty interesting. You're very perceptive.

 

[JonathanHunt]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

As well, joining the board after being banned is akin to lying; what does this say for Martin Marprelate's witness who is actually Steve Owen who was banned more than a year ago???

It's sad.

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by Scott Bushey]

I don't think this comment, coming from an owner of this board, is at all becoming. It is not Christ-like, it is not gracious.

I really think threads like these should be closed down.

As an aside, to any student of Church History, Martin Marprelate is so obviously a nom de plume used by a provocateur that I find it amazing he was allowed to post for so long. He even 'revealed' himself several months ago.

Steve Owen is not 'on board' with Joe Gleason, by the way - he just happens to have joined his discussion board, and will no doubt continue there to debate Covenant Theology as he did here.

Yes, the whole thing is very SAD, but why make it WORSE? Just close these threads down, let people make their own minds up, and get on with life!

This public board has a stance. So do other public boards. Let people choose their boards as they will, and cease sniping from one to the other.

JH

 

[Scott Bushey]

Jonathan,
You are correct; it was our fault for allowing MM to continue to post under a moniker.That does not make his doing that ok; he was banned a year earlier. In fact, embracing his lie is sin and all those supporting him in sin.

 

[Civbert]

I tend to spend less times on other boards simply because the anonymity leads to less respectful discourse. I might be more tempted to try the Superhighway if they had the same signature requirements and accountability. On the Puritan Board, you won't find people posting things they wouldn't want their mother or pastor reading.

P.S. Looked at the rules on the Superhighway, and they have a similar signature requirement (name, church affiliation, etc) so that's a big plus. Maybe it will be a decent discussion site.

[Edited on 4-21-2006 by Civbert]

 

[Scott Bushey]

I don't think this comment, coming from an owner of this board, is at all becoming. It is not Christ-like, it is not gracious.

Gracious? Christ like? Lying is?

I really think threads like these should be closed down.

Closed it is!

As an aside, to any student of Church History, Martin Marprelate is so obviously a nom de plume used by a provocateur that I find it amazing he was allowed to post for so long. He even 'revealed' himself several months ago.

I would like to see that; can you provide the information where Steve revealed this?

Steve Owen is not 'on board' with Joe Gleason, by the way - he just happens to have joined his discussion board, and will no doubt continue there to debate Covenant Theology as he did here.

OK

Yes, the whole thing is very SAD, but why make it WORSE? Just close these threads down, let people make their own minds up, and get on with life!

You don't think it is important that someone lies and then a group of godly men embrace it and rally around his sin?

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by Scott Bushey]

 

[Contra_Mundum]

"Move along, move along. Nothing to see 'ere, folks. Nothing to be done for 'em. Move along now..."


It's time to move on. When folks up and leave a church, there's only so much you can do to bring 'em back. And most of that should have been seen and tried the day before they left for the last time. NOW THIS AIN'T A CHURCH. I ain't sayin' it is. I'm sayin' that if we keep reflecting on it, an' writing about it, an' dwelling on it, its just going to fester.

There's two boards now. Some folks are keeping a hand in both places. That's fine, so long as they can keep the business from the one separate from the other, and not be one thing in one company and another thing in another company.

Give these boards 6 months. Today they are painfully similar. In 6 months or a year, they will be as different as night and day. Let each one be itself. Don't try comparing the one to the other. The day will reveal each man's work. Those of you in both places will see the changes that take place in each. Don't bring a discussion of those changes here. Don't air changes from here over there. That is not an "order" (although as a moderator, I will seek to police this matter); it is pastoral advice, nothing more.

Move along now, move along...

{This thread will be closing in due time...}