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Very sad. I've heard they've pulled a "Robert Duvall" (from The Apostle) and ordained themselves. Even though they were de-frocked their congregation has apparently voted the Session back into leadership.
Originally posted by theologae
Very sad. I've heard they've pulled a "Robert Duvall" (from The Apostle) and ordained themselves. Even though they were de-frocked their congregation has apparently voted the Session back into leadership.
Can you substantiate this?
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif"><a id="dismissed" name="dismissed"></a>Update February 5, 2005</font></p>
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<h3 class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">RPCGA Dismisses RC Sproul Jr and Defrocked Session and Is Immediately Reappointed as Elders by St. Peter <del>Presbyterian</del> Congregational Church </font></h3>
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<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">On February 2, 2006 the deposed session of St. Peter Presbyterian Church issued a letter of "repentance" to the Westminster Presbytery of the RPCGA, also requesting to be dismissed from the jurisdiction of the Presbytery. Their letter of "repentance," in my personal estimation, was a whitewash of the grievous charges against them, as specified in the Presbytery's Declaratory Judgment. However, given the history of the St. Peter Session their letter of "repentance" was deemed by Presbytery the best that could realistically be hoped for:</font></p>
<p class="Body"><a href="Repentance020206.pdf" target="_blank"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">Repentance020206.pdf</font></a></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">On February 3, 2006 the Westminster Presbytery of the RPCGA dismissed RC Sproul Jr, Laurence Windham, Wayne Hays and Jay Barfield:</font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif"><a href="ToDeposedSession.doc" target="_blank">ToDeposedSession.doc</a><br>
<a href="ToDeposedSession.pdf" target="_blank">ToDeposedSession.pdf</a> </font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">The RPCGA had cause to believe that this tragic saga was now largely over. </font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">However, it would seem that RC Sproul Jr has once again demonstrated his inability to comprehend what the word "repentance" means and, as such, the saga for the St. Peter <del>Presbyterian</del> Church continues. </font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">A Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches (CREC) church in Knoxville and it's pastor claim to be providing "oversight" to St. Peter. However, this "oversight" comes with some interesting arrangements in terms of who is actually in charge of who. The "oversight" pastor, David Queener, was ordained by RC Sproul Jr, and now that RC has been defrocked David Queener is returning the favor by helping to legitimize his old defrocked friend. </font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">CREC Pastor David Queener preached at St. Peter today from 1Timothy 5:19, "Against an elder receive not an accusation." The message to the St. Peter congregation was apparent, along with apparent ominous overtones. Mr. Queener helped set the stage for what would transpire later that evening.</font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">The RPCGA stated in its Declaratory Judgment of RC Sproul Jr and his session, </font></p>
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<dd class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">"Most importantly, their actions manifest that they lack the qualification for the ministry (1Timothy 3:1-7). It would be unwise to allow these men to continue to hold an office for which they are not qualified."</font>
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<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">Nevertheless, in the evening the names RC Sproul Jr, Laurence Windham, Jay Barfield and Wayne Hays were presented by a "steering committee" before the congregation of St. Peter Church to be reinstated as Elders (albeit non-ordained, indeed defrocked Elders) by a congregational vote. Nothing could have more clearly evidenced the defrocked elders' lack of sincere repentance to the multiple former members that they have tyrannized, and to the RPCGA which had declared them unfit "to hold an office for which they are not qualified," than for them to have immediately pursued their former offices. </font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">By a majority of the voting head of household members the congregation of St. Peter Church determined to reinstate their defrocked session as their Elders. It would appear that the members of St. Peter, along with their defrocked session, have abandoned entirely the Presbyterian polity they cherished so dearly for years. Now St. Peter is an Independent Congregational church. <em>Vox populi vox dei</em> -- the voice of the people is the voice of God. </font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">RC Sproul Jr has long claimed his need for accountability and to be "under authority." He promised his congregation, and he promised his denomination, to submit to ecclesiastical authority. The authority that he swore an oath to obey (RPCGA) rendered a sentence against him, defrocking him and deeming him unfit for the office of Elder. Clearly, RC Sproul Jr has demonstrated that he has no genuine regard for submitting to authority. By his actions RC Sproul Jr has proven that he was never a Presbyterian but an autonomist. </font></p>
<p class="Body"><font face="Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif">RC Sproul Jr and his defrocked session are known to have been in negotiations with the CREC since the first of January. Though St. Peter Congregational Church voted to reinstate their defrocked elders, it remains to be seen if the CREC (or any other denomination that St. Peter solicits an imprimatur from) will defy the RPCGA's judgment and re-ordain the defrocked men. <br>
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Vox populi vox dei -- the voice of the people is the voice of God.
Originally posted by SemperFideles
Very sad. I've heard they've pulled a "Robert Duvall" (from The Apostle) and ordained themselves. Even though they were de-frocked their congregation has apparently voted the Session back into leadership.
I have serious concerns for R.C. Jr. but I have a question for other members of the board:
1. Does anybody else get Tabletalk or is a Tape of the Month partner at Ligonier?
2. Anybody considering cancelling their support if they fail to remove R.C. Jr. as their Editor for the magazine?
Your honest feedback is appreciated.
Good point but he's been prominent over the years in Tabletalk. Do you think it reflects poorly if they don't remove him from his column if he continues in his current vein?Originally posted by Pilgrim
Originally posted by SemperFideles
Very sad. I've heard they've pulled a "Robert Duvall" (from The Apostle) and ordained themselves. Even though they were de-frocked their congregation has apparently voted the Session back into leadership.
I have serious concerns for R.C. Jr. but I have a question for other members of the board:
1. Does anybody else get Tabletalk or is a Tape of the Month partner at Ligonier?
2. Anybody considering cancelling their support if they fail to remove R.C. Jr. as their Editor for the magazine?
Your honest feedback is appreciated.
Burk Parsons is listed as editor, not R.C. Jr, although Jr continues to contribute a monthly column. Sproul, Sr is listed as executive editor.
The Whitefield Seminary front page says "the picture of the Seminary graduate previously displayed with his written permission has been removed at the request of his organization" http://www.whitefield.edu
I'm assuming this was a picture of Sproul?
Originally posted by SemperFideles
Good point but he's been prominent over the years in Tabletalk. Do you think it reflects poorly if they don't remove him from his column if he continues in his current vein?Originally posted by Pilgrim
Originally posted by SemperFideles
Very sad. I've heard they've pulled a "Robert Duvall" (from The Apostle) and ordained themselves. Even though they were de-frocked their congregation has apparently voted the Session back into leadership.
I have serious concerns for R.C. Jr. but I have a question for other members of the board:
1. Does anybody else get Tabletalk or is a Tape of the Month partner at Ligonier?
2. Anybody considering cancelling their support if they fail to remove R.C. Jr. as their Editor for the magazine?
Your honest feedback is appreciated.
Burk Parsons is listed as editor, not R.C. Jr, although Jr continues to contribute a monthly column. Sproul, Sr is listed as executive editor.
The Whitefield Seminary front page says "the picture of the Seminary graduate previously displayed with his written permission has been removed at the request of his organization" http://www.whitefield.edu
I'm assuming this was a picture of Sproul?
I'm really conflicted over this. I'm not vindictive and was very taken aback by this. Nevertheless, his actions while a Minister, and his current actions are very disturbing to me.
[Edited on 2-20-2006 by SemperFideles]
Originally posted by SemperFideles
1. Does anybody else get Tabletalk or is a Tape of the Month partner at Ligonier?
2. Anybody considering cancelling their support if they fail to remove R.C. Jr. as their Editor for the magazine?
Originally posted by SemperFideles
He replied, "Ah yes, back in 1974 (?), I was a newly ordained minister with my PhD in hand and I was told to go interview a theologian who was seeking transfer into the PCA by the name of R.C. Sproul. I remember asking him questions and he would answer them and I would be like 'Really? Tell me more....'"
Dear Meg,Originally posted by turmeric
R. C. Sproul Sr. is also not in the PCA - not sure why that is...
There are those that know more about what St. Andrews Chapel is. I've kind of divined stuff from his Tape of the Month. I believe he is still ordained in the PCA and a member of the Presbytery where his Chapel is located but the Chapel and Session are not within the Presbytery.Originally posted by DTK
Dear Meg,Originally posted by turmeric
R. C. Sproul Sr. is also not in the PCA - not sure why that is...
I was wondering if you could tell me when Dr. Sproul Sr. transferred out of the PCA. The latest available Yearbook of the PCA (2005) includes him as one of our ministers. To be sure, the church which he pastors is not in the PCA. But it's not uncommon for PCA ministers to be approved to labor out of bounds.
Blessings,
DTK
Originally posted by SemperFideles
Originally posted by theologae
Very sad. I've heard they've pulled a "Robert Duvall" (from The Apostle) and ordained themselves. Even though they were de-frocked their congregation has apparently voted the Session back into leadership.
Can you substantiate this?
http://hushmoney.org/R.C._Sproul_Jr._disclaimer.htm
Correction of false assumptions by an eyewitness and member of St. Peter PC. - On Jan 26th, Dr. Talbot sent an email to members of SPPC deposing the current Session (Sproul, Windham, Hays & Barfield) and announcing SPPC was never really a member of the RPCGA, listing some accusations concerning paedo-communion, church discipline and church finances. The email also implied that formal church charges and trial were pending. - 6 days later, the men in question signed a doc repenting for violating the denomination's standards on paedocommunion and for "instances of mishandling office" and requesting release without censure from the RPCGA. No confession to specific accusations was made. Anyone who says otherwise probably presumes too much. - 2 days later, Dr. Talbot sent a letter superceding the first one which forgave the men for the sins confessed, released both the session and congregation from the RPCGA without censure. Ie, they were not "defrocked". - 2 days later at a congregational meeting at which the four former RPCGA elders were NOT PRESENT, the church spontaneously proposed and carried a motion to recognize our session as our session. - The church has continued having lay-led services without communion since Jan 26th. No presumption of re-ordination has been made by the men in question. - The church plans to seek denominational oversight ASAP. This account is not official. It's just what I saw with my own eyes.
Originally posted by SemperFideles
I hope that's the case. I do wish, however, that the men would step down from leadership at least for a season. Even in "the world", we don't normally let men continue in immediate leadership after they have mishandled their responsibilities.