Slain from the Foundation of the World

[youthevang]

I have been thinking about this for some time now. I have heard people quote Revelation 13:8 or referred to it. However, the translation from Greek to English is not the same in the different versions.

KJV:

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

NKJV:

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

NASB:

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

RSV:

and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain.

ESV:

and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain.

I am still trying to get the hang of Greek but it seems that the KJV and the NKJV translates it correctly. Am I looking at it wrong or is it usually quoted wrong? Most people when quoting the verse speak of the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Is that correct or does the phrase "from the foundation of the world" actually refer to those "not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain?" Thanks.

 

[Blueridge Believer]

Could it be that there is a difference in that passage between the T.R and the C.T.? Afterall, the NKJV and the KJV come from the T.R. and the others from the C.T.

God bless you in your studies dear brother.

 

[youthevang]

Could it be that there is a difference in that passage between the T.R and the C.T.? Afterall, the NKJV and the KJV come from the T.R. and the others from the C.T.

God bless you in your studies dear brother.

Yes, I would agree that would be the difference, however, I have heard seminary professors quote this verse who are not KJVOnly. Since they are more fluent in biblical Greek, this is where my confusion comes in.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

It can grammatically fit with either.

All of the translations are legit. This is what makes translation, and then interpretation, a challenge. What do you do when there is more than one way legitimately to handle a sentence? You often have to go around to other passages, looking for consistency.

1) Checking the rest of the book/letter, seeing what similar things the author has said, looking at similar constructions in his Greek, where the meaning is more obvious, looking at the remainder of his corpus.

2) Other internal clues. One of history's great exegetes was Calvin. Calvin had many tools, intellectual as well as literary. He knew how to translate, etc. Occasionally his stuff seems dated or temporally conditioned; sometimes he seems just plain wrong. But he is so often right, and even better than many moderns, with all their linguistic tools. And the reason is, Calvin seemed to be able--almost intuitively sometimes--to perceive the flow of the author's thought, and then re-express that flow expanded and explained.

3) Checking the history of interpretation. The early fathers were working off a very short history, and that can often be helpful. Long and hallowed tradition can at least tell you what one series of teachers were teaching for the meaning of particular passage.


I'll just add this, after reading the intervening posts. I don't think the issue is textual variant, or TR, CT.

 

[BJClark]

I don't know, but....something that just came to my mind...

Could it refer to both?

God being eternal, past, present and future...He knew the Lamb would be slain, and He knew whose names would and would not be written in the Lambs book of life.

 

[youthevang]

Thanks Rev. Buchanan. I concur with you on Calvin. I have so much more to learn . I will look up what Calvin says concerning this verse.

 

[johnny_redeemed]

I don't know, but....something that just came to my mind...

Could it refer to both?

God being eternal, past, present and future...He knew the Lamb would be slain, and He knew whose names would and would not be written in the Lambs book of life.

This is a theological response. Though it my be true THEOLOGICLY... Joshua wants and exegetical response. In order to do that we need to dig into the text itself.

 

[VictorBravo]

I'll just add this, after reading the intervening posts. I don't think the issue is textual variant, or TR, CT.

For what it's worth, Bruce is correct. I checked my handy pocket Stephanus (of the TR family) and it reads the same as the CT.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Joshua,
You're not going to find any comment by Calvin on this verse, because he didn't do a Revelation commentary. He didn't write much on Revelation at all. T.H.L. Parker thought that Calvin must have had questions about its cannonicity. I doubt that, nevertheless its true that he didn't reference revelation much in any of his works.

I think he didn't understand it as well as he thought he should, if he were to comment much on it. And I think he intended to get through the OT, studying and commenting, before he tackled Revelation (because of the massive amount of OT allusion in the book). But that is just my speculation.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Interesting question you pose, Joshua: does "from the foundation of the world" refer to the "Lamb slain" or to those "not written in the book of life"?

I prefer the KJV reading where it refers to the Lamb; I trust the scholarship and learning of those who made that translation.

In Rev 17:8 there is another mention of the book: "and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder [at the beast], whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world".

So this book of life in which names were and were not written before the foundation of the world, is the Lamb's book, and we know that He was given to be slain in the eternal purposes of God, before ever there was man, and that even then — before all things — God had "chosen us in Him [Christ]" (Eph 1:4). So in God's view, before the foundation of the world 1) the Lamb was slain (given and destined to be slain), 2) the names of the elect were written in His book, and 3) those not chosen — passed over — were not written in the book, also before the creation of the world. All three of these things can be inferred from your verse in 13:8, but I would say that it explicitly states regarding the Lamb that He was slain and His book written before the world began.

It helps to find a Bible one has full confidence in.

May the Lord watch over your life and make you fruitful.

Steve