Postmillennialists: are we in the millennium now?

[Mr. Bultitude]

A question for postmils.

Are we currently in the millennium? If so, (approximately) when do you think it began?

 

[Edm]

Began at the Crucifiction.

 

[ADKing]

I am a postmillennialist. I do not believe the millennium has begun. Certain things like the conversion of the Jews (Romans 11) will precede it.

 

[Josh Williamson]

I'm postmil, but I do not believe we are in the millennium at the moment. Rev. Silversides makes a good case for the position I hold to: https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=9130414633

 

[Megs]

From a postmillennial historicist perspective, the millennium has NOT started yet. It won't start until Antichrist and its/his allies are defeated. Following F.N. Lee's John's Revelation Unveiled, Antichrist's final downfall could very well be in progress considering the European nations are starting to turn against the globalist project (cf. Rev. 17:16-17).

F.N. Lee also posits a sort of "missionary mopping up" operation taking a short period of time prior to the millennium's commencement where the nations are converted to Christ. He estimates this will be completed around 75 years after the fall of Antichrist and its allies (his notes on Rev. 20:1-6). So from that perspective, the millennium won't be starting anytime soon :

"Christ had just showed John a preview of the completion of the mopping-up operation by the armies of His Church apparently some seventy-five dayyears after the downfall of 'Babylon.'847 This mopping up of the remnants of His former enemies, results in the establishment of a Christian World Order in every land, throughout our great planet Earth."

"As to its fulfilment, this event seems yet future. From both the broader
context849 and the narrower,850 this seems to refer to an event which only starts commencing after849 the termination of the mopping-up operation851 just mentioned immediately prior to it.852"​

"Christ will again keep on coming down from Heaven invisibly (through the mighty Spirit-filled preaching of His "Angels" or Preacher-Messengers), to bind the Devil for "a thousand years."848 This He will do especially during and after the destruction of the international political Beast and its godless Horns or "the Kings of the Earth" and all their incorrigible followers.863

The result will then be the large-scale conversion of the "remnant" of the Anti-christian hordes and the arrival of a time of speedy expansion of Christianity and, at length, of World-wide blessings. Such will then endure 'millennially' last right down to the time of Jesus' Final Coming (visibly, in power, and with great glory).864"​

 

[Adam Olive]

If post-millennialism is defined as Jesus returning after the millennium then there are actually two different post-millennimun views.
1. Post-millennialism where Jesus returns after an earthly millennium in the future
2. Ammillenialism where Jesus returns after a heavenly millennium that is present between the two comings of Jesus in the heavenly places.

 

[Taylor]

If post-millennialism is defined as Jesus returning after the millennium then there are actually two different post-millennimun views.
1. Post-millennialism where Jesus returns after an earthly millennium in the future
2. Ammillenialism where Jesus returns after a heavenly millennium that is present between the two comings of Jesus in the heavenly places.

Yes, strictly speaking, both "post" and "a" are "post" in that they both teach that Christ will return after the Millennium. The primary differences, then, are 1) the starting point and 2) the nature of the Millennium.

 

[Mr. Bultitude]

If post-millennialism is defined as Jesus returning after the millennium then there are actually two different post-millennimun views.
1. Post-millennialism where Jesus returns after an earthly millennium in the future
2. Ammillenialism where Jesus returns after a heavenly millennium that is present between the two comings of Jesus in the heavenly places.

Thank you. I'm aware of this. I was deliberately posing the question to postmils and not amils. I know the standard amil answer to the question.

 

[Scottish Presbyterian]

The standard post-millenial answer is no. It's possible that there are some post-millenialists who believe it has already begun - I have never met or read of any, and can't think what rationale could be given for an earlier starting point.

As a post-millenial I am not 100% certain that the conversion of the Jews will precede the millennium altogether, but I think the conversion of the Jews and the removal of Papal Antichrist will occur early in the millennium. The main point though is that the nature of the promises regarding the millennium are such that it would take some fairly acrobatic logic to show that they are already being fulfilled.

 

[Edm]

I could be wrong, but I think Bahnsen, Gentry etc, (said) say we are now in it. And use Matthew 12:28 as a proof.

 

[Scottish Presbyterian]

I could be wrong, but I think Bahnsen, Gentry etc, (said) say we are now in it. And use Matthew 12:28 as a proof.

I know Bahnsen would generally be classed as postmillennial, but if that is his view it is amillennial.

 

[Taylor]

I know Bahnsen would generally be classed as postmillennial, but if that is his view it is amillennial.

I don't think believing the Millennium began with Jesus' necessarily makes one an amillennialist. If a postmillennialist does believe this, it makes them atypical, sure, but I don't think it necessarily makes them an amillennialist. I think the defining marker of postmillennialism is not the timing of the Millennium, but the nature of it—namely, 1) a literal Millennium and 2) the progressive improvement of the world through the domination of the gospel message during this Millennium. Believing the Millennium began at Christ does not, in my view, oppose either of these defining characteristics.

Still, perhaps Bahnsen's view could be classified as "optimistic amillennialism."

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

Almost all of the Postmillenials I know are partial preterists, and all of those believe that the Millennium is now.

Until recently I had never met a Postmillenial that didn't think we were currently in the Millennium, and I found it quite odd.