Places to discuss the Afrikaners
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Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Peter,
I do not think it is against the board rules and policies to discuss the Afrikaners. From what I understand, it was what was being said in the thread (that was removed) that had no profit to the subject that caused thread's demise.
I do not think it is against the board rules and policies to discuss the Afrikaners. From what I understand, it was what was being said in the thread (that was removed) that had no profit to the subject that caused thread's demise.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
In that case, Peter, you may open a new thread under the premise that if the thread gets heated again, it will be deleted and the topic banned for future discussion.
Peter
I live in South Africa and although I do not know much about Orania and some of the "Afrikaner Calvanistic" beliefs, what I can say is this.
Our churches here are quite diverse, unfortunately as in other countries much apathy and charismatic teaching has taken hold, so good theology is looked down upon and much false teaching is rife. The usual TBN etc rule the TV airwaves as well as other popular charismatic teachings. Just like other countries everything seems to be replaced with good old secular humanism. Abortion has been legalised along with p0rnography and now it looks like homosexual marriage will be the next thing.
In terms of the Afrikaner churches while some are good there are some bad. Not all Afrikaners were right wing "Neo Nazis" though, there were those like Beyers Naude that were I believe challenged by God and there christian beliefs and they stood against the shamefull government we had.
http://www.sahistory.org.za/pages/people/naude-cfb.htm
The link will tell you more about him and the work he did against Apartheid. I must admit when I see things like Orania I do hesitate at though, if it is simply a way to maintain a bit of cultural heritage I supppose it is OK, but many times I have to ask is it the true purpose and this goes for black and white. If it is organised by some Afrikaner Freedom movement then I have serious doubts and I can also with reasonable confidence say its part of the old Evil.
As far as the old Afrikaans churches and even some English churches in South Africa and its Apartheid days, you would not have found anything more non christian. Gods word would even be used to support these racist beliefs and you were endoctrinated from the day you were born. Media was controled and the good old propoganda machine worked like a well oiled machine. You sat in school sang Hymns and prayed at the beggining of school etc. You were told you were supporting a Christian country and fighting the commies in Angola etc. But you were not a Christian.
It was a sad time but not all were lost and many new truth and stood for it. Others held and still hold that the white Afrikaners were the chosen ones, I dont know if this is what would be refered to as "Afrikaner Calvinism" if so it is far from Calvinism.
As for me I am a Christian and the only "cultural elite" group I belong to is my Christian family. My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ you are my family black, white , yellow, HIV positive etc. IF Christ is in you you are my family and I hope that the Lord will make that more real to me every day that I live in this world. The only other group are those who dont yet have Christ and they are who i hope to minister to for Christ. Everything else pales in comparison.
I live in South Africa and although I do not know much about Orania and some of the "Afrikaner Calvanistic" beliefs, what I can say is this.
Our churches here are quite diverse, unfortunately as in other countries much apathy and charismatic teaching has taken hold, so good theology is looked down upon and much false teaching is rife. The usual TBN etc rule the TV airwaves as well as other popular charismatic teachings. Just like other countries everything seems to be replaced with good old secular humanism. Abortion has been legalised along with p0rnography and now it looks like homosexual marriage will be the next thing.
In terms of the Afrikaner churches while some are good there are some bad. Not all Afrikaners were right wing "Neo Nazis" though, there were those like Beyers Naude that were I believe challenged by God and there christian beliefs and they stood against the shamefull government we had.
http://www.sahistory.org.za/pages/people/naude-cfb.htm
The link will tell you more about him and the work he did against Apartheid. I must admit when I see things like Orania I do hesitate at though, if it is simply a way to maintain a bit of cultural heritage I supppose it is OK, but many times I have to ask is it the true purpose and this goes for black and white. If it is organised by some Afrikaner Freedom movement then I have serious doubts and I can also with reasonable confidence say its part of the old Evil.
As far as the old Afrikaans churches and even some English churches in South Africa and its Apartheid days, you would not have found anything more non christian. Gods word would even be used to support these racist beliefs and you were endoctrinated from the day you were born. Media was controled and the good old propoganda machine worked like a well oiled machine. You sat in school sang Hymns and prayed at the beggining of school etc. You were told you were supporting a Christian country and fighting the commies in Angola etc. But you were not a Christian.
It was a sad time but not all were lost and many new truth and stood for it. Others held and still hold that the white Afrikaners were the chosen ones, I dont know if this is what would be refered to as "Afrikaner Calvinism" if so it is far from Calvinism.
As for me I am a Christian and the only "cultural elite" group I belong to is my Christian family. My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ you are my family black, white , yellow, HIV positive etc. IF Christ is in you you are my family and I hope that the Lord will make that more real to me every day that I live in this world. The only other group are those who dont yet have Christ and they are who i hope to minister to for Christ. Everything else pales in comparison.
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Having read a book by a black clergyman Sipo Mzimela entitled Marching to Slavery, which makes light of the violence and terrorism of the Marxist African National Congress (ANC), I see South African politics in a whole new light. The lionized Nelson Mandella is not the man he is made out to be. The appellation of "terrorist" to Mandella is NOT out of line. I'd rather not go on a sordid expose of the crimes committed by the communists such as Mandella. Crime and other social patholoies have skyrocketed since the 1990s in "democratic South Africa." I have a great deal of empathy for the persecuted Calvinist communities in Zimbabwe and South Africa. I heard a pastor from Zimbabwe speak at a Presbyterian church once about life in Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe, and it is not very pleasant to say the least. I know a pastor and a professor that studied in South Africa... and he would attest to the problems in the country. The peoples of South Africa including the Afrikaneers (mostly at the hands of the British) have had a troublesome past. All people-groups tend to have their hands dirty, so to speak... Collectivist politics and collectivist ideology (i.e. communism, fascism) only foments the blame game and deepens conflict. I personally think that South Africa needs to decentralise its government and afford the various peoples autonomy and home rule in much the same way as the Swiss cantons do. Rediscovering principles of Subsidiarity and Federalism are requisite and getting beyond sanctimonious adulation for "democracy." Playing the all-or-nothing battle for power game at the national level only deepens conflict and foments strife. This is probably why American founding father Benjamin Rush called democracy "the devil's government..." Democracy needs need be localized, otherwise it denigrates into majoritarian tyranny. As Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn put it, fifty-one percent of the voters can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic. After 1990, South Africa merely exchanged one form of tyranny for another.
This isn't a matter (i.e. Afrikaneer history, South African politics) I am going to debate or discuss though, because I am not an authority on it, however, much I have read. It's not a whole lot I can say anyway... maybe prayer is called for.
As a sojourner who does not plan on getting too comfortable here on earth, I'm looking forward to the glorious day when all the political, religious, and ethnic strife of this troubled world will be done away with.
[Edited on 3-13-2005 by Puritanhead]
This isn't a matter (i.e. Afrikaneer history, South African politics) I am going to debate or discuss though, because I am not an authority on it, however, much I have read. It's not a whole lot I can say anyway... maybe prayer is called for.
As a sojourner who does not plan on getting too comfortable here on earth, I'm looking forward to the glorious day when all the political, religious, and ethnic strife of this troubled world will be done away with.
[Edited on 3-13-2005 by Puritanhead]
Can't you edit the content of a post without closing the entire thread? I was involved in 2 seperate threads on the topic and both were abruptly killed, as you say, not b/c of the thread itself but b/c of individual posts. If you don't mind, Im going to start knew threads of the same titles with links to the previous ones, unless you open them up again.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Peter,
Hold on. Let me check with the rest of the admins. Maybe we can trim it.
Hold on. Let me check with the rest of the admins. Maybe we can trim it.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Assessor
A dear friend of mine is South African of the Reformed stripe; (s)he (withholding name and identity on purpose for reasons not pertinent to the board, or members thereon) talks of how the embargo destroyed the country and how terroristic Mandela was.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
jacob,
I have heard the same from a friend of mine who was S. African.
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