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Originally posted by Scott
Whether a particular congregation is a true church is a separate issue from whether that congregation's ministers' are lawfully ordained. You can have a true church with unlawful ministers. And whether the simple fact of being a true church allows that church to ordain ministers is what is in question. Indepedents would typically say yes. Everybody else would typically say no.
Aren't there reasons for which a judgment would need to be made, though? For example, if someone is considering joining a church, an important question should be whether or not the ministers are lawfully ordained. The issue is unavoidable for some people.The problem with ME questioning the "lawfulness" of this guy's ordination, or that church's lawful behavior, is that I lack jurisdiction, I lack studied familiarity with that "car".
Yes. If you get a chance, check out Matt's article. Reformed theology says that lawfuly ministry is for the well being of the church, not its being. A true church can exist without lawful ministers. But lawful minister are needed for the church's well being.Can churches "spontanously generate" then in closed countries where people happen upon sermon tapes or Bibles and self-study?
Can a group of believers be raised up and gathered in an assembly and then recognize several men as leaders....which still happens in tribal areas of Irian Jaya with little or no contact with long-term outside missionary presence.
It would seem that if the RBCs have essentially the same lineage, then they could make a case for having lawful minister even under the type of analysis Matt has described.Most RBCs, by the way, get ordained ministers together to ordain another RBC minister; their practice (and presumably their doctrine) is not purely congregational in this department.
Unavoidable for some? Yes, I agree. Occasions to make judgments? Yes. In the post, I'm talking about myself. I won't even begin the process of questioning the ordination or lawful ministry of, say, Al Martin. I just won't go there. Ever. Al's never going to join my presbytery. I'm not thinking of joining TRBC. It's not on my radar screen. He's an incredible preacher. I suppose (I have no idea) he's also a decent elder. That's the end of my evaluation.Originally posted by Scott
Aren't there reasons for which a judgment would need to be made, though? For example, if someone is considering joining a church, an important question should be whether or not the ministers are lawfully ordained. The issue is unavoidable for some people.The problem with ME questioning the "lawfulness" of this guy's ordination, or that church's lawful behavior, is that I lack jurisdiction, I lack studied familiarity with that "car".
[Edited on 4-24-2006 by Scott]
That does it; the question is already a moot point. Any minister driving a BMW has to be making too much money, and thus is operating it unlawfully!Originally posted by Contra_Mundum
No one asked me to be a mechanic onthat vehicle. Now, if you try to put a "volvo" fuel pump in one of my "bmws" I'm going to have to take a look at that thing, to see if it's compatible. Never mind whether I think volvos or any other brand ought to be on the road for any other reason. Different question.
Originally posted by Contra_Mundum
Hey now!
I just didn't want the issue to degenerate into a import-export fight, or a Ford-Chevy debate, and have folks miss my point!
I also used nocaps. That ought to be sufficient, right?
And if anyone thinks I actually have a fleet of BMWs, I also have a bridge I'd like to sell you...
Originally posted by Scott
"sorry, bmws don't cut it...still wondering on a serious answer."
Suggest you send a U2U to Matt.