New PCUSA outrage
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toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
He is not the first and will not be the last.
Though for what it is worth John Knox Presbytery, despite what they may say, has violated the Book of Order in "ordaining" this man.
Though for what it is worth John Knox Presbytery, despite what they may say, has violated the Book of Order in "ordaining" this man.
jawyman
Puritan Board Junior
I guess what saddens me more than anything is how this man is so enslaved to Satan and sin and the "church" facilitates keeping him in chains in the name of cultural acceptance. My heart also goes out to all those lost souls whom he will lead into the very mouth of Hell. I find this news a very sad indictment of our day and age.
bouletheou
Puritan Board Freshman
AustinWW,
What is essential? All you have to do is say "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior" and be able to say "I submit to the essential tenents of the confessional documents of our church." Of course, for 100 years things like the resurrection, the virgin birth, the miracles of Christ, and the substitutionary atonement have not been essential tenents.
Blessings,
What is essential? All you have to do is say "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior" and be able to say "I submit to the essential tenents of the confessional documents of our church." Of course, for 100 years things like the resurrection, the virgin birth, the miracles of Christ, and the substitutionary atonement have not been essential tenents.
Blessings,
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
rbcbob
Puritan Board Graduate
Here in Louisville the Presbyterian seminary is right across the street from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. In the days before Dr. Mohler the SBTS was tracking leftward right with the Presbyterians accross the street. Is it too late to pray that a similar recovery would occur accross the road?
SemperEruditio
Puritan Board Junior
Is this surprising? Is he the first? I thought the reason the PCUSA is decreasing in size is because of them ordaining homosexuals? Was it only that they were considering it and this gentleman is the first?
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
The ordination of homosexuals is only one symptom of a disease that has been infecting and festering in the denomination for some time. Where was the outrage when Biblical authority was rejected, or women were ordained to teaching offices, or the gospel was diluted as one of many ways to God, or the virgin birth and resurrection of our Lord were denied, etc.
SemperEruditio
Puritan Board Junior
Ahh that's what it was. It was women being ordained. Now 50 years later...
bouletheou
Puritan Board Freshman
RC Bob,
Yes, way too late. I was a student at LPTS when Mohler arrived. I watched what happened. It was ruthless and it was effective. The evanjellyfish in the PCUSA don't have gumption, the plan, or the power to do what is necessary to recover the thing.
Of course, God could come in revival, and there could be repentance like there was at Nineveh in Jonah's day, but nothing short of that will work.
Blessings,
Yes, way too late. I was a student at LPTS when Mohler arrived. I watched what happened. It was ruthless and it was effective. The evanjellyfish in the PCUSA don't have gumption, the plan, or the power to do what is necessary to recover the thing.
Of course, God could come in revival, and there could be repentance like there was at Nineveh in Jonah's day, but nothing short of that will work.
Blessings,
EricP
Puritan Board Freshman
As Benjamin put it so well, this won't be the last time--nor will those of us in more conservative reformed circles be immune from the challenge of defending the faith from such things. Let's hope our spiritual descendants in 100-200 years aren't calling us PCA'ers "jellyfish" too for caving. Feminists and the gay/lesbian lobbyists are nothing if not persistent, relentless, and well funded. So sad and so blind--and how disingenuous of Anderson to complain of "violation of decorum" in asking about his sexuality when that seems to be how he defines himself in the eyes of his presbytery.
Mushroom
Puritan Board Doctor
You think ordination of women had something to do with this?
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
Wayne Grudem does. His Evangelical Feminism: A New Path to Liberalism? makes the point that ordination of women has been the precursor to acceptance of the gay issue. But, "correlation does not always imply causality."
You know what they say: Presbyterians are just Baptists that are afraid of water but not booze.
In the ABCUSA, I knew a number of openly gay ministers, several of them married to their same sex partners (typically in MA). One of them, a friend of mine, even invited me to his wedding! The last time I checked, he and a number of his colleagues are still members in good standing in the ABCUSA while pastoring congregations. I, on the other hand, renounced my ABC ordination in a public meeting with the head of the denomination about 4 years ago.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
Given the trends, I don't believe it will take anywhere near that long.
bouletheou
Puritan Board Freshman
You think ordination of women had something to do with this?
Brad,
Absolutely. The same hermeneutic employed to pull women's ordination out of the Bible is used by the homosexual ordination crowd to justify their desires. Exactly the same. And the pro homo crowd will generally admit it. I was in the Cincinnati Presbytery of the PCUSA when Steven Van Kuyken, a pro-gay, now ex-PCUSA minister stood up and said, "The evangelicals are just being hyporcrites. They caved to us on divorce. They caved to us on women's ordination, and now they are drawing the line at gay ordination and marriage?" He saw very clearly that these are the product of the same view of scriptural authority and exegesis. At that moment, so did I.
Brad,
Absolutely. The same hermeneutic employed to pull women's ordination out of the Bible is used by the homosexual ordination crowd to justify their desires. Exactly the same. And the pro homo crowd will generally admit it. I was in the Cincinnati Presbytery of the PCUSA when Steven Van Kuyken, a pro-gay, now ex-PCUSA minister stood up and said, "The evangelicals are just being hyporcrites. They caved to us on divorce. They caved to us on women's ordination, and now they are drawing the line at gay ordination and marriage?" He saw very clearly that these are the product of the same view of scriptural authority and exegesis. At that moment, so did I.
SemperEruditio
Puritan Board Junior
Definitely. In seminary the logic for women is that we have to be smart enough to realize that it was because of culture that Paul required women to be silent and only men to lead. However culture has changed and so Paul's teachings are correct but only for those saints at that particular time and place. The same goes with homosexuals. It was an abomination "then" but now it is accepted by culture so thus we must change with the times. This naturally comes from a liberal hermeneutic in that the Bible is inspired by God but not written by Him. So we must go through the Bible and be inspired enough to extract just the truth without the misogynistic and homophobic influences...or so it goes.
From that we get female pastors and the slippery slope to homosexuals. I've earned the labels of intolerant, homophobe, women-hater, backward, moron,....orthodox. Yet no one at my school can explain to me why we cannot begin to ordain those who engage in sexual intercourse with beasts or the dead or....
MrMerlin777
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Yawn...
Well there's a surprise! I think I'll have a heart attack and die from that surprise!
Well there's a surprise! I think I'll have a heart attack and die from that surprise!
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