Need help with Rob Bell

[Amazing Grace]

Recently our pastor is considering using the 'nooma' series done by Rob Bell for a video bible study. I know his heretical teachings, but only through second sources. Before I go to the Elders meeting and reject using Bell, does anyone have any first hand sources of his beliefs? I would like to bring direct statements from him and not what Driscoll and Piper have to say about him.

I have enough information on New Ageism and Emergent heresy which he does promote. What I need is something in his own words connecting him irrefutably to these heresies. My time is limited because of work lately, so help me!!!!!!

 

[Archlute]

I've watched a few, and know that for being a Fuller grad he sure does handle the languages irresponsibly.

 

[smhbbag]

From http://www.theopedia.com/Rob_Bell :

"Heaven is full of forgiven people. Hell is full of forgiven people. Heaven is full of people God loves, whom Jesus died for. Hell is full of forgiven people God loves, whom Jesus died for. The difference is how we choose to live, which story we choose to live in, which version of reality we trust. Ours or God's." - p. 146

"I can't find one place in the teachings of Jesus, or the Bible for that matter, where we are to identify ourselves first and foremost as sinners. Now this doesn't mean we don't sin; that's obvious. In the book of James it's written like this: 'We all stumble in many ways.' Once again, the greatest truth of the story of Adam and Eve isn't that it happened, but that it happens. We all make choices to live outside of how God created us to live. We have all come up short." - p. 139

This would be enough, I think. But there are plenty more.

 

[AThornquist]

Not all of his points are wrong but his motivations behind this clip are scary:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7IL6gz_juI"]Rob Bell SHE[/ame]

Here's an article about him "undefining" holiness:

Rob Bell undefines holiness

Check out the first part of this clip, not necessarily the review:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wSAEezBc3s"]Peter sank in the water because he doubted himself[/ame]

 

[toddpedlar]

Here's a particularly damning quotation from Bell about creation, our participation in it (gag!) the incarnation, and God's inability to Sovereignly decree anything concerning His creation: hat tip to The Truth IN Context. I certainly hope your pastor will reconsider his desire to spew on your congregation the bilge that Bell has produced.

Rob Bell’s Growing Mystical Mythology Of Man

Below follows a partial transcription of “Open,” which is the latest Nooma video by Rob Bell of the emerging church. In his effort to please people, it sure seems to me that Bell has now so far over-emphasized the humanity of Christ that he has all but lost His Deity in the process.

Those familiar with liberal theology can also tell you it would teach virtually the same thing as Bell does below; right down to the idea that “Jesus took very seriously the creation poem Genesis that the Bible begins with.”

In “Open” Rob Bells tells us:

Now to understand why Jesus prays like this, we have to understand that Jesus took very seriously the creation poem Genesis that the Bible begins with. And in this creation poem God creates, but God creates things that are capable of creating more, and so God creates trees but then gives trees the ability to create more. God creates animals and plants and fish but then empowers them to create more. And then God creates people, and gives them the ability to create more.

So everything in creation is essentially unfinished, God leaves the world unfinished, and invites people to take part in the ongoing creation of the world. Now, when you create, you always run the risk that what you’ve created, won’t turn out how you wanted it to, it may go a different direction, it may not be everything you intended it to be. It may veer off course, and it may break your heart.

And so, this creative energy, this divine creative energy that brought everything into existence it takes great risk in creating, but at the same time it works in a very specific way. It brings order out of chaos, so the Genesis creation poem says that it was wild and waste, chaos and void, and out of this God began the endless process of bringing design and order and beauty. So when Jesus prays, He’s tapping into this divine creative energy that made everything.

And so prayer, for Jesus, it was not this passive, acceptance of well, I guess this is just how its gonna be, and it wasn’t this active kind of rebellion against I’ll dictate the future for Jesus prayer was being open to the God who’s at work here and now, but to be open to the creative working of God in the world here and now you have to be honest , so when Jesus is saying things like is there any way for this cup to be taken so I don’t have to drink it He’s being brutally honest with God, God I don’t really want to go through this.

Like it says in the book of Psalms chapter 13 where the writer says God, how long will, will you forget me forever, how long will you hide your face from me? Jesus came from a long tradition of people who saw prayer as brutal honesty with God. Some people think that half of the psalms were laments, people grieving and outpouring their anguish in times of great suffering and torment, people shaking their fist at God, challenging God, doubting with God, wrestling with God, questioning God.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Too bad we cannot appeal to the civil magistrate in Michigan to stop his teaching.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Too bad we cannot appeal to the civil magistrate in Michigan to stop his teaching.

Oh, we could. We'd just be laughed at.

True. Unfortunate. But True.

 

[Michael Doyle]

This is from my old blog site. Jon Speed wrote this article from his site, which I cannot recall, sorry Jon.

Posted by Michael in The Gods are not angry. A Rob Bell emergent tragedy

My friend Jon Speed on another message board posted his review of the Rob Bell outing in Texas. To those of you unfamiliar with whom Rob Bell is...He leads a large church in Michigan called Mars Hill. He is the author of the book Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith (2005).
He is considered a leader in the emergent movement. Some of his controversial quotes are as follows:

Inspiration and Hermeneutics

* "The Bible is a collection of stories that teach us about what it looks like when God is at work through actual people. The Bible has the authority it does only because it contains stories about people interacting with the God who has all authority." - p. 65


Heaven and Hell

* "Heaven is full of forgiven people. Hell is full of forgiven people. Heaven is full of people God loves, whom Jesus died for. Hell is full of forgiven people God loves, whom Jesus died for. The difference is how we choose to live, which story we choose to live in, which version of reality we trust. Ours or God's." - p. 146

* "When people use the word hell, what do they mean? They mean a place, an event, a situation absent of how God desires things to be. Famine, debt, oppression, loneliness, despair, death, slaughter--they are all hell on earth. Jesus' desire for his followers is that they live in such a way that they bring heaven to earth. What's disturbing is when people talk more about hell after this life than they do about Hell here and now. As a Christian, I want to do what I can to resist hell coming to earth." - p. 148

* "The goal of Jesus isn't to get into heaven. The goal is to get heaven here." - p. 148


The Fall

* "I can't find one place in the teachings of Jesus, or the Bible for that matter, where we are to identify ourselves first and foremost as sinners. Now this doesn't mean we don't sin; that's obvious. In the book of James it's written like this: 'We all stumble in many ways.' Once again, the greatest truth of the story of Adam and Eve isn't that it happened, but that it happens. We all make choices to live outside of how God created us to live. We have all come up short." - p. 139


Ultimate Reality

* "For a Christian, Jesus' teachings aren't to be followed because they are a nice way to live a moral life. They are to be followed because they are the possible insight into how the world really works. They teach us how things are. I don't follow Jesus because I think Christianity is the best religion. I follow Jesus because he leads me into ultimate reality. He teaches me to live in tune with how reality is. When Jesus said, 'No one comes to the Father except through me', he was saying that his way, his words, his life is our connection to how things truly are at the deepest levels of existence. For Jesus then, the point of religion is to help us connect with ultimate reality, God." - p. 83


Criticism of doctrinal method

"According to Mr. Bell there are two ways to approach doctrine: as a brick or a spring. The brick approach to doctrine is solid, unmoving and unchanging. It has no life. It is the wrong approach. A spring has life; it is flexible, and it is constantly changing. Rob Bell believes all doctrines are springs. By embracing such a view of doctrine and truth Mr. Bell drives a wedge between reality and doctrinal truth. He creates a paradox where there isn't one. Bell views doctrines as 'statements about our faith that help give words to the depth that we are experiencing.'"

All this to preface the post from Jon which is as follows...

Rob Bell’s “The Gods Are Not Angry” Review

I must admit that most of my exposure to the teaching of the Emergent Church has been limited to a few brushes with Christian student organizations on college campuses while doing open-air preaching. However, the predominant philosophy of the movement, unbelieving post-modernism, is as common as American pennies to anyone who has done any amount of evangelism amongst college aged students.

When Rob Bell came to Dallas, TX for a stop on his “The Gods Are Not Angry” tour, we went primarily for the purpose of passing out Gospel tracts after the event let out. God had other plans and we ended up getting free tickets to the event.

Bell’s presentation was very basic in terms of the medium that he uses to communicate. The stage was empty with the exception of a large model of an altar. While Bell does not use a half hour diatribe with three points beginning with the letter “p” to communicate his position (something he criticizes in his presentation), the listener has to be prepared for a two hour diatribe with no point at all.

The crowd that came out to hear Bell was as entertaining as Bell himself. Apparently the Emergent movement is not beyond that bane of popular American Christianity: idol worship. It was amazing to see so many of the men dressed like Bell, many even sporting the same dark rimmed glasses.

Bell’s thesis follows this line of reasoning: 1) mankind has offered sacrifices to various conceptions of God because he must in order to keep receiving blessings (harvest, children, etc.) or because he has offended God and must earn back the favor of whatever deity he or she is worshipping. 2) The sacrifice concept was developed in primitive “caveman-like” eras over lengthy periods of time, which assumes the accuracy of Darwinian evolution. 3) The story of redemptive history in the Bible is not about sacrifices dealing with the issue of sin, but showing that God’s true character is not like that of the angry, vengeful and demanding pagan deities (he uses one of the feasts in Leviticus to make this point). 4) That Jesus Christ’s sacrifice has done away with not only the Old Testament sacrificial system, but also all pagan sacrificial systems (through a poor misrepresentation of Hebrews). Thus, he comes to the conclusion that Christ died to prove to the human race that God is not angry with them, that He loves them pretty much as they are, and that there is no need to repent. This is what leads many critics of the movement to conclude that Bell and others are Universalists. 5) The effect of this brand of “Christianity” (using this term loosely) is that people who have been impacted by this message do good things for others.

The errors in Bell’s “doctrine” are apparent to anyone who bothers to take the time to examine his teaching on even a cursory level. While sociologists may conclude that godless cultures instituted sacrificial systems as a lame attempt to deal with their guilt as well as an attempt to coerce deity to bless their work, the Bible does not teach anywhere that the sacrificial system of the true God was designed to correct the errors in popular pagan thinking. In fact, it does teach that these cultures developed these systems as a deviation and perversion of the truth. It teaches that they rebelled against the truth and in a manifestation of (gasp!) God’s wrath, they became more and more degenerate (Romans 1:18-32). It teaches that their problem was sin, which is why the biblical sacrificial system was instituted in the first place, even as far back as Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:21).

Bell’s handling of the texts in Hebrews can be characterized as either: 1) theological revisionism or 2) woefully ignorant. In light of Bell’s years in ministry and training, it’s probably best to characterize the teaching as the former rather than the latter. To suggest that Hebrews 10 teaches that Christ’s sacrifice had anything to do with pagan sacrificial systems is ludicrous. That text compares the sacrifices of Yom Kippur with Christ’s perfect sacrifice and speaks of the superiority of Christ’s work to that of the Old Testament sacrificial system. In order to come to the conclusion that Bell comes to, it is necessary to ignore both the immediate context of Hebrews 10 and the entire book of Hebrews. For a general exposition of Hebrews 10, click here: http://www.countrysidebible.org/media/s1c1070916a.mp3.

Bell mangled the definition of repentance, stating that repentance is not turning from sin. Rather, he says it is a “celebration” of life in Christ. He further stated that anyone who tells you that you need to repent is not talking about Christianity. If he is right, then John the Baptist (Matthew 3:2), Peter (Acts 3:19), Paul (Acts 20:21) and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Matthew 4:17; 9:13) weren’t preaching Christianity. In order to come to this conclusion, Bell has to ignore all of the Old and New Testament evidence that repentance is turning from sin and turning to Christ alone in faith. He has to ignore the Jewish conception of repentance (which was not lost on the Jewish believers of the early church) which was turning from sin to turn to God (Ezekiel 18).

So, to summarize, Bell has reduced the death of Christ to an act of God intended to demonstrate that God is not angry with us. There was no mention of Christ’s substitutionary death for our sin (2 Corinthians 5:21), a revision of repentance, and no mention of a need for true saving faith in Christ alone for salvation. In short, in two hours of diatribe, there was not a mention of the true Gospel and an elaborate, witty presentation of a false one.

After the event was over, we went outside of the theater to pass out tracts. We could do it confidently, knowing that we belonged there because the tracts gave the missing and accurate information. Whatever Rob Bell is teaching, it is not orthodox Christianity. If those in the “Emergent Conversation” are to have any hope, they will have to turn from their questioning of everything biblical and admit that the Bible has the answers.

Blessings,

Jon

-----Added 11/12/2009 at 02:41:19 EST-----

He's very robbellious.

Very witty

 

[Jon Peters]

Too bad we cannot appeal to the civil magistrate in Michigan to stop his teaching.

Darn that pesky First Amendment!

 

[tt1106]

May it never be. I love that my 12 year old is decidedly Calvin in approach.
Her favorite Preachers are John Piper and Pual Washer.
It's a shame we spent 3 years in a church that took the word of God so loosely.

 

[ChristianTrader]

Too bad we cannot appeal to the civil magistrate in Michigan to stop his teaching.

Darn that pesky First Amendment!

I think this would be akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater

CT

 

[jandrusk]

I can tell you personally that I can only endure so much of the animal excrement that comes out of Rob Bell's mouth.

 

[kvanlaan]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Miqu5fwtEdc]YouTube - Some Quotes of Rob Bell[/ame]

 

[kvanlaan]

Here's one more - not sure about this in its entirety (it's huge!)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szBoFUjGs-I&feature=channel]YouTube - Is Rob Bell a Christian? (Fighting for the Faith)[/ame]

 

[Grillsy]

Guys he's bad news. I have, through the course of many many college classes, had the unfortunate privilege to watch all of the Nooma series plus read all of his books (all required).
He is just bad news...not to mention he is helping to bring Buddy Holly glasses back in style.
Seriously though he is just bad news. A heretic, a true heretic in our times.

 

[calgal]

Brian McLaren is his mentor.

 

[Grillsy]

I believe his father is his mentor if you know what I mean...

 

[Marrow Man]

Peter has faith in himself?!?!? God has faith in us?!?!?

ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Grillsy]

Peter has faith in himself?!?!? God has faith in us?!?!?

ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

This is only the tip of the iceberg Brother! Wait until you hear him talk about the rhythm of creation and how all the world "vibes" to that and that it is all about getting into rhythm with the beat of creation (very Eastern Orthodox)...But even then that is only scratching the surface. Search out his stuff about the incarnation...or better yet don't, just take a dime store Q-Tip and jam it as far into the ear canal as possible, that would pretty much be the equivalent.

 

[Marrow Man]

Peter has faith in himself?!?!? God has faith in us?!?!?

ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

This is only the tip of the iceberg Brother! Wait until you hear him talk about the rhythm of creation and how all the world "vibes" to that and that it is all about getting into rhythm with the beat of creation (very Eastern Orthodox)...But even then that is only scratching the surface. Search out his stuff about the incarnation...or better yet don't, just take a dime store Q-Tip and jam it as far into the ear canal as possible, that would pretty much be the equivalent.

 

[Grillsy]

Peter has faith in himself?!?!? God has faith in us?!?!?

ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

This is only the tip of the iceberg Brother! Wait until you hear him talk about the rhythm of creation and how all the world "vibes" to that and that it is all about getting into rhythm with the beat of creation (very Eastern Orthodox)...But even then that is only scratching the surface. Search out his stuff about the incarnation...or better yet don't, just take a dime store Q-Tip and jam it as far into the ear canal as possible, that would pretty much be the equivalent.

Indeed, but perhaps my language was a bit too harsh. Maybe I have been reading too much Luther lately.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

The only nooma video I have scene was one where he is walking next to a line of cars with their headlights on talking about something. The Holy Spirit thankfully shielded my brain from remembering much more.

 

[Marrow Man]

Maybe I have been reading too much Luther lately.

Don't ever apologize for that, friend!

 

[Karnes]

Not sure of the Nooma series, but it was the one with the orchestra and slowly they add instruments until they are in harmony, very universalist undertones.

My favorite quote from Rob Bell in this DVD, "Jesus is like, God."

That was enough for me.

 

[Grillsy]

Not sure of the Nooma series, but it was the one with the orchestra and slowly they add instruments until they are in harmony, very universalist undertones.

My favorite quote from Rob Bell in this DVD, "Jesus is like, God."

That was enough for me.

That was a Nooma vid.

 

[toddpedlar]

Not sure of the Nooma series, but it was the one with the orchestra and slowly they add instruments until they are in harmony, very universalist undertones.

My favorite quote from Rob Bell in this DVD, "Jesus is like, God."

That was enough for me.

That was a Nooma vid.

You know, it's sad when a supposedly Christian video series has the same name and about equal Christian content to another video with a similar name...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60og9gwKh1o]YouTube - Numa Numa[/ame]

 

[Amazing Grace]

Thank you all for confirming my initial thoughts. I am just appalled that my pastor, who just did a 12 week series on salvation which was fantastic, would now consider using Bell for a video series. For some odd reason, he never wants to use anyone else when it comes to a reformed understanding except himself. I see absolutely no use in using Bell except to point out what bad theology is.


Now to move on, can anyone suggest a simple video series for a study? We have many nominal reformed people who think Calvin made jeans. Thanks again for your input.

-----Added 11/12/2009 at 08:19:50 EST-----

Not sure of the Nooma series, but it was the one with the orchestra and slowly they add instruments until they are in harmony, very universalist undertones.

My favorite quote from Rob Bell in this DVD, "Jesus is like, God."

That was enough for me.

I actually watched this one. I did like the music though.

 

[smhbbag]

Now to move on, can anyone suggest a simple video series for a study? We have many nominal reformed people who think Calvin made jeans. Thanks again for your input.

Amazing Grace: The History & Theology Of Calvinism - DVD at Christian Cinema.com

They are fantastic, clear, and each section of the DVD is designed to fit into a typical lesson time.

They have some seriously big names simply sitting and explaining the Doctrines of Grace. Highly recommended.

From the description:

Rich in graphics, dramatic vignettes, and biblical analogies, Amazing Grace — The History and Theology of Calvinism also features many of the finest reformed thinkers and pastors of our time: Dr. R.C. Sproul, Dr. D. James Kennedy, Dr. George Grant, Dr. Stephen Mansfield, Dr. Thomas Ascol, Dr. Thomas Nettles, Dr. Roger Schultz, Pastor Walt Chantry, Dr. Joe Morecraft, Dr. Ken Talbot, Pastor Walter Bowie and Dr. R.C. Sproul, Jr..

Come learn what the great Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon meant when he said, “…to deny Calvinism is to deny the gospel of Jesus Christ.”

 

[ewenlin]

Now to move on, can anyone suggest a simple video series for a study? We have many nominal reformed people who think Calvin made jeans. Thanks again for your input.

Amazing Grace: The History & Theology Of Calvinism - DVD at Christian Cinema.com

They are fantastic, clear, and each section of the DVD is designed to fit into a typical lesson time.

They have some seriously big names simply sitting and explaining the Doctrines of Grace. Highly recommended.

From the description:

Rich in graphics, dramatic vignettes, and biblical analogies, Amazing Grace — The History and Theology of Calvinism also features many of the finest reformed thinkers and pastors of our time: Dr. R.C. Sproul, Dr. D. James Kennedy, Dr. George Grant, Dr. Stephen Mansfield, Dr. Thomas Ascol, Dr. Thomas Nettles, Dr. Roger Schultz, Pastor Walt Chantry, Dr. Joe Morecraft, Dr. Ken Talbot, Pastor Walter Bowie and Dr. R.C. Sproul, Jr..

Come learn what the great Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon meant when he said, “…to deny Calvinism is to deny the gospel of Jesus Christ.”

I have watched this more than once. Very good, except it's just the 5 points.