Man wants to go into missions, wife wants to stay

[Amazing Grace]

I have seen elder-qualified men have this happen too (their wives flat out say no to even the possibility of missions).

Elders are people too (now THAT was funny ;-) ) so they have shortcomings. But if a mature man, confident of his calling and after consultation with the church decides he needs to move to the next city to support his family financially, and the wife refuses to budge, then at that particular point in his personal history, he isn't elder qualified. It's more like a one time drinking too much, or cussing the guy that cut him off, or falsely accusing and verbally beating a church member. Something to be repented of, and changed. Which brings us back to the points made by Laurence and Stuart. Until he's got his house in order he ain't ready.

Can you elaborate on this Tim? A one time event is not a barometer of having ones house in order. The over emphasis of the Pauline qualifications as I believe you and Scott are adhering to will only bring about 2 fruits. 1) The Elder will not discuss his 'dirty laundry' with anyone for fear of someone with a proverbial flea comb ready to strain some harmless gnat and call for his stepping down. 2) It becomes too subjective on what the qualifications mean to each individual examining the life of others. According to this type of logic, the Father with the prodigal son somehow failed in keeping his house in order and would be treated as one unqualified. And since Christ represents the father, I somehow disagree with this assessment.

If an Elders life, as a whole, is righteous in the eyes of the Lord, they are most certainly qualified even if some pesky gnat appears. There is absolutely no way that Paul, who understood grace more than any of us, would have intended to have Elders be under the microscope for others to dissect. I can imagine myself and perhaps others calling for Paul to step down when he involved himself in the Nazarite vow. What would his answer have been?

 

[TimV]

Can you elaborate on this Tim? A one time event is not a barometer of having ones house in order.

In this case the wife's rebellion (rooted probably in common sense, or in instinct like Lynnie so insightfully explained it) is on going. An elder who's 16 year old gets drunk once isn't disqualified, but if his 16 year old becomes a meth addict in constant long term rebellion needs to step down because he isn't qualified. And even more so, a man who's 16 year old living at home is a meth addict has no business being appointed an elder.

 

[CredoFidoSpero]

On the OP and what advice to give to couples in this situation - it sounds to me like an excellent opportunity for learning to practice intercessory prayer and fasting for you spouse, for your marriage, and for truly discerning God's will and call on your life. And I agree with the others here that have mentioned that the first thing to go to God with is where you yourself might be walking in disobedience or selfishness or pride, etc.

Some other thoughts:
Some of the best advice I ever heard on marriage, from a strong-willed, strong complementarian pastor, was that if there is not unity in the marriage on a decision, most especially on a major decision, and the decision does not have to be made immediately, then they should take all they time they need to reach unity. If a decision has to be made and there is not unity, then I think that's a case where the husband should lead and the wife should submit.

It seems to me that we generally assume that a strong call or passion from God must mean that it's got to happen now, right now, right this very minute, everything else has to stop that does not directly support or lead to that goal. Moses, Joshua, David - who can dispute the clear call of God on their lives when they were young? And how many DECADES in their lives before those things truly came to pass? God prepares us for the things He has called us to, lovingly and patiently, gives us hopes and dreams to sustain us through dry and weary times. Part of diligently seeking His will is also seeking and trusting in His timing and His ability to accomplish all things toward His goals. Married, single, at home, abroad, it seems to me that in all seasons we are called to wait, pray, and do carefully and faithfully the things that are set before us now. And, yes, be ready to go when it's time to go.

So much in the Bible on waiting on God, and I don't think I've ever heard one sermon on that. Have any of you?

 

[Amazing Grace]

Can you elaborate on this Tim? A one time event is not a barometer of having ones house in order.

In this case the wife's rebellion (rooted probably in common sense, or in instinct like Lynnie so insightfully explained it) is on going. An elder who's 16 year old gets drunk once isn't disqualified, but if his 16 year old becomes a meth addict in constant long term rebellion needs to step down because he isn't qualified. And even more so, a man who's 16 year old living at home is a meth addict has no business being appointed an elder.

Again, this action brings to light exactly what I pointed out above in my 2 fruits. I am an Elder. And if this is the case, then I would not take counsel with anyone regarding a home situation that would be looked at as somehow my fault and disqualify me. I want to know where I can find your list of disqualifying situations and who determines it. And how many have to charge the leader with the issue? It presents a time line for one to be 'safe' from the fruit inspectors ad accept the calling until their children reach 16. A one time drunk by my son, would not even make me think twice about my calling. A two time drunk neither. Would Philemon have been disqualified if you were there for him not having his house in order when Onesimus ran away? I find this a prefect time for Paul to question his eldership of the local assembly yet he does nothing of the sort. Who, for instance, is perfectly temperate in all areas of his life? I see many elders, deacons, and well-known preachers who are fat slobs because they are not temperate in their eating habits and disciplined in exercise. Yet, we never think twice about selecting such men to these offices. Form a practical standpoint, I doubt many blind side their wives one day and say, I want to go into the mission field next week. If God has called the person, He alone will either convert the wife, or the husband shakes the dust off his feet and goes without her if after a period of teaching and admonishing the wife proves futile.

 

[TimV]

If God has called the person, He alone will either convert the wife, or the husband shakes the dust off his feet and goes without her if after a period of teaching and admonishing the wife proves futile.

Interesting. Abandon your wife even if she doesn't commit adultery or abandons you. Because he gets a "call". In my church I think you'd not only get kicked out as an elder, but as a member as well.

 

[SolaScriptura]

If God has called the person, He alone will either convert the wife, or the husband shakes the dust off his feet and goes without her if after a period of teaching and admonishing the wife proves futile.

Now THAT is hardcore.

 

[kjat32]

As the wife of a couple wanting to "go" I don't know that I'm wise enough to counsel anyone on what to do in such a situation. However, I have learned a lot personally in the last couple of years of our "waiting".

You can trust God with everything, even your spouse.

You must be willing to submit yourself, your plans, your desires, your hopes, everything, all to God. And when things don't go your way, then submit it all again.

Once married, always married in God's sight (unless partner has died or committed adultery). So you're stuck together for _better_ or _worse_.

And personally, I don't know a single Christian woman who wouldn't acquiese to a husband's call and desire if she is being loved as she should be and if he is patient until she is ready. Sometimes God puts other people's unreadiness into our lives to prepare us to learn how to wait on Him and submit to Him.

Hope that helps, Pergamum. I imagine you get lots of Q's. May God bless you with His wisdom at such moments.

Katherine

 

[ZackF]

Parchment and Pen How My Passion for Ministry Almost Ended My Marriage


What are your thoughts on this article?


I have encountered some young couples that are in this situation, the man wanting to go but the woman wanting to stay.


What sort of counsel is best in these situations?

What are good things to advise both parties?

This may put me too far to the left, but I had several conversations with my wife about a possible job relocation before I entertained any offers. If she wasn't on board I wasn't interested. Let alone a call to the mission field.

 

[Pergamum]

I do get lots of questions and people seeking my advice - advice that I often cannot give.

I try very hard not to give a "message from the Lord" when there isn't always a clear one to give, and a lot of my "answers" are, "Well...I don't know...talk to your elders and pray about it..." or, in this case, "Are you and your wife really talking and praying together about this?..."


What other practical advice would you give me as I counsel and talk to couples in this situation?

 

[Amazing Grace]

If God has called the person, He alone will either convert the wife, or the husband shakes the dust off his feet and goes without her if after a period of teaching and admonishing the wife proves futile.

Interesting. Abandon your wife even if she doesn't commit adultery or abandons you. Because he gets a "call". In my church I think you'd not only get kicked out as an elder, but as a member as well.

A total non sequitur. Who said anything about abandoning my wife? I would make sure she was supported well. How can you disagree with my above statement? And out of all the truth I penned, this is the one part you focus on? There is certainly a reason we are not told about the apostles wives or families after they were called. I mean, if Andrew and John, and James and Peter said, "Um hold on Jesus, let me check with my wife and see if she wants to go or if she says its OK for me to follow you, he may have cuffed them in the back of their head!!!!

I also think you are overreacting with your above statement about being kicked out, I certainly have scripture on my side and would not approach this flippantly. You obviously have not been effectually called to do something out of your comfort zone. Tim, let the dead bury the dead. Let the rebellious wife sit and stew while her husband is doing God's work. I myself would be like Job or David when their spouses tried to get between them and the Almighty.

 

[SemperEruditio]

I had known her years before and she was a first class b**** even then, pardon my hebrew).

I'm taking Hebrew. Guess I haven't gotten to that section of the vocab.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Perg,
the answer I'd give anyone in that situation is found in1Cor.7

v4, the wife is refusing to go, and the husband is demanding that she go. Both have "authority" over the other's body.

v7, the problem would be simplified if only they were single!

vv32-33, I wish you could be like me, without care of the world, and able only to please the Lord.
But you are obligated to see to pleasing your wife.

v34, the woman who is unmarried, she too is able to serve the Lord free of cares of this life, otherwise she must please her husband

In the end, the person who wants to please God in this situation will see the obstinacy of the spouse as an obstacle imposed by divine providence. Wait until he moves it, or helps you channel your desire in the way he wishes, that doesn't involve pressuring your spouse.

 

[TimV]

A total non sequitur. Who said anything about abandoning my wife?

You did.

I would make sure she was supported well.

Are you going to have a brother have sex with her? You can abandon your spouse and still live under the same roof. Shaking off the dust of your shoes and sending her a monthly check? Now who's talking non sequitur???

You obviously have not been effectually called to do something out of your comfort zone. Tim, let the dead bury the dead.

10 years in Africa and Papua New Guinea? Without any financial support? Working my own way, while teaching literacy, Bible, agriculture and raising 7 kids on an African salary? Coming back to the US with 9 in the family, no house, car, job, phone, credit and 3000 in cash? Not to brag, but I doubt a lot of people out there would beat me in that particular peeing contest. But since you brought it up, how's about a thumb nail CV from you?

 

[Edward]

What other practical advice would you give me as I counsel and talk to couples in this situation?

My advice would be to not spring things of this sort on a spouse. Start with abstract discussions/questions. Maker sure that the spouse knows that they are part of the decision process. Get answers to known concerns. Know her weaknesses - and yours.

 

[Amazing Grace]

A total non sequitur. Who said anything about abandoning my wife?

You did.

I would make sure she was supported well.

Are you going to have a brother have sex with her? You can abandon your spouse and still live under the same roof. Shaking off the dust of your shoes and sending her a monthly check? Now who's talking non sequitur???

You obviously have not been effectually called to do something out of your comfort zone. Tim, let the dead bury the dead.

10 years in Africa and Papua New Guinea? Without any financial support? Working my own way, while teaching literacy, Bible, agriculture and raising 7 kids on an African salary? Coming back to the US with 9 in the family, no house, car, job, phone, credit and 3000 in cash? Not to brag, but I doubt a lot of people out there would beat me in that particular peeing contest. But since you brought it up, how's about a thumb nail CV from you?

Well you definitely caught the bigger fish!!! Kudos to you. You win the peeing contest against me in that area. Now back to the task at hand and your misuse of the Pauline requirements.

And you had a supporting wife obviously. Why? Because God blessed you with her and obviously had hand in the situation. If your wife had enough after 5 years and returned back to the US, you have every right to remain in what God has called you to do. There is no disqualification from a call of yours because she rejected her role. The line of thought you are taking on this matter is like blaming a pastor for the lack of conversions in his ministry. I have provided scriptural examples, concrete examples of Job, David,Jacob the Apostles, that show the effectual irresistible call of God trumps a rebellious wife. Or having ones house in order. If you would like to speak about the specific scriptural examples I have given, I will be more than happy to discuss. And I again repeat, leaving ones miserable obstinate wife, who is unteachable, to go into the mission field, is a no disqualification whatsoever. And I have no clue what you mean about having a brother having sex with her, satisfying her sexual appetite would be last on my list if she remained obstinate to the call of God.

 

[TimV]

And you had a supporting wife obviously. Why? Because God blessed you with her and obviously had hand in the situation.

No, I didn't have a supporting wife. And I had the same attitude you do. And I'm now divorced, since she left me due in large order to the trauma of me running rough shod over her feelings. You're as ignorant and self righteous as I was 10 years ago, and about the only reason I'm having this stupid dialogue with you is so that people immature in the faith can learn from my mistakes. You can listen to me now, or wish you had later.

 

[Amazing Grace]

And you had a supporting wife obviously. Why? Because God blessed you with her and obviously had hand in the situation.

No, I didn't have a supporting wife. And I had the same attitude you do. And I'm now divorced, since she left me due in large order to the trauma of me running rough shod over her feelings. You're as ignorant and self righteous as I was 10 years ago, and about the only reason I'm having this stupid dialogue with you is so that people immature in the faith can learn from my mistakes. You can listen to me now, or wish you had later.

Tim, my intention was not to come across as self righteous and definitely not ignorant. I never once suggested one should 'run rough shod' over the spouses feelings. If you look back, you will see I continuously mentioned that after a period of discussion, teaching and admonition, the decision to answer the call of God still trumps an obstinate wife. Your individual situation should not be the barometer for the whole. Neither should you feel guilty for the rest of your life. I am positive you repented of your actions. Going into the mission field should not be treated lightly and must take much discernment and prayer. If not, problems will certainly arise.

 

[Scottish Lass]

If your wife had enough after 5 years and returned back to the US, you have every right to remain in what God has called you to do. There is no disqualification from a call of yours because she rejected her role.

Which, I think, is entirely different than deciding whether to go in the first place, which is the focus of the OP.

 

[ZackF]

A total non sequitur. Who said anything about abandoning my wife?

You did.



Are you going to have a brother have sex with her? You can abandon your spouse and still live under the same roof. Shaking off the dust of your shoes and sending her a monthly check? Now who's talking non sequitur???

satisfying her sexual appetite would be last on my list if she remained obstinate to the call of God.

Why?? Are you also saying a wife not satisfy her husband's sexual appetite if she is upset with his station in life? According to scripture, it seems conjugal duties are the highest among priorities of living according God's will in marriage not the lowest.

 

[Pete]

My wife and I are new missionaries and will be heading to Bulgaria this summer. While we were trying to decide if this is what God was calling us to, we spoke to many missionaries about what it means to "be called". One thing that was interesting was that many families had a time of waiting before they went to the field, because of where their children were age/school wise or one of the spouses not be ready at the time. One man waited and prayed for 14 years, before his wife was called to serve over seas. Now they are serving overseas and have been for almost 8 years. I just don't think it would be healthy or a good example for the people we are ministering to seeing a couple separated by "ministry" or miserable because one of the spouses does want to be there.

 

[Pergamum]

If God has called the person, He alone will either convert the wife, or the husband shakes the dust off his feet and goes without her if after a period of teaching and admonishing the wife proves futile.

Interesting. Abandon your wife even if she doesn't commit adultery or abandons you. Because he gets a "call". In my church I think you'd not only get kicked out as an elder, but as a member as well.

A total non sequitur. Who said anything about abandoning my wife? I would make sure she was supported well. How can you disagree with my above statement? And out of all the truth I penned, this is the one part you focus on? There is certainly a reason we are not told about the apostles wives or families after they were called. I mean, if Andrew and John, and James and Peter said, "Um hold on Jesus, let me check with my wife and see if she wants to go or if she says its OK for me to follow you, he may have cuffed them in the back of their head!!!!

I also think you are overreacting with your above statement about being kicked out, I certainly have scripture on my side and would not approach this flippantly. You obviously have not been effectually called to do something out of your comfort zone. Tim, let the dead bury the dead. Let the rebellious wife sit and stew while her husband is doing God's work. I myself would be like Job or David when their spouses tried to get between them and the Almighty.

Peter appears to have dragged his wife about with him in his missionary labors:

1 Corinthians 9
1Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

2If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

3Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,

4Have we not power to eat and to drink?

5Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

6Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?

 

[thegospel]

William Carey

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't William Carey leave his wife to work in India? God used him, but I would never advocate his actions and we see God's amazing grace.

The things that concerned me about the article are, as most have mentioned:

1. The wife is not addressed to see her reasoning for resisting.
2. So many desire to do international missions, myself included, but how am I seeking to reach my neighbor or neighborhood. Not that reaching your neighbor is a requirement for international missions, but what drives a person to think that they are qualified for missions if that person is not seeking to reach the lost and dead in their community.

 

[lynnie]

Carey's wife went with him to India and eventually died there, but spent many years unhappy and even "insane" so they say. After their little boy died she apparently just "lost it." Andrew Fuller back in England was so very busy with the missionary society supporting Carey that his wife complained that he had no time to even talk to her. One does get the impression that ministry came first and wives second. It is a pity, as the heathen nations to which they went needed the picture of loving Christian marriage- Christ and His bride- so desperately.

 

[Pergamum]

What are ways in which a husband can begin to "train" a spouse into readiness or cultivate a love in the spouse towards the missionary call? What are ways in which wives can cultivate a happiness in following their husband's call, whether it be as a pastor in the next state over, in a new job which requires a relocation, or going as a missionary cross-culturally?

Loving your wife sometimes means NOT giving her the best physical comforts, and loving your wife means not always succumbing to her weaknesses and desires for affluence and comfort. Yet, man are often blockheads and we drag our wives forward instead of winning her over to our side so that she follows happily.

 

[Pergamum]

Carey's wife went with him to India and eventually died there, but spent many years unhappy and even "insane" so they say. After their little boy died she apparently just "lost it." Andrew Fuller back in England was so very busy with the missionary society supporting Carey that his wife complained that he had no time to even talk to her. One does get the impression that ministry came first and wives second. It is a pity, as the heathen nations to which they went needed the picture of loving Christian marriage- Christ and His bride- so desperately.

Ironically, many churches speak ill of soft missionaries sometimes and glamorize the days when people packed their coffins and headed to africa, fully expecting to die for the cause. They talk about missionaries needing to sacrifice and fully being ready to die and to "spend and be spend" or be "totally consumed by their passion for the lost" and then, when it happens, they get chided by the same churches for this compulsive drive which sacrifices family time, family health and family emotional stability.

Balance is hard.


I marvel that God uses anyone of us.

 

[JBaldwin]

What are ways in which a husband can begin to "train" a spouse into readiness or cultivate a love in the spouse towards the missionary call? What are ways in which wives can cultivate a happiness in following their husband's call, whether it be as a pastor in the next state over, in a new job which requires a relocation, or going as a missionary cross-culturally?

The two things that come to mind are prayer and example. That doesn't mean the husband runs off and abandons the wife while he serves the Lord. If a man feels called to do mission work, it would seem he is already doing that work in some capacity at home, and the love he has for the Lord and the joy he finds in serving the Lord should be evident in his service in the community and especially at home to his wife and family. If the wife is content and secure in her husband's love and in the love the Lord has for her, she will follow him wherever he goes.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

You obviously have not been effectually called to do something out of your comfort zone. Tim, let the dead bury the dead. Let the rebellious wife sit and stew while her husband is doing God's work. I myself would be like Job or David when their spouses tried to get between them and the Almighty.

I believe this is a poor understanding of David and Job. David was a terrible husband and father. The fruit of his offspring reveals this. Job didn't abandon his wife even when she gave him a death wish. He was a good father and husband and God prospered him even more later on.

There are charges to both wives and husbands. Let us not forget God's charge to the husband. Especially since it effects our communion with God.

(1Pe 3:7) Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

 

[Amazing Grace]

You obviously have not been effectually called to do something out of your comfort zone. Tim, let the dead bury the dead. Let the rebellious wife sit and stew while her husband is doing God's work. I myself would be like Job or David when their spouses tried to get between them and the Almighty.

I believe this is a poor understanding of David and Job. David was a terrible husband and father. The fruit of his offspring reveals this. Job didn't abandon his wife even when she gave him a death wish. He was a good father and husband and God prospered him even more later on.

There are charges to both wives and husbands. Let us not forget God's charge to the husband. Especially since it effects our communion with God.

(1Pe 3:7) Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Martin: I certainly agree with this assessment. My clarity is lacking in my statements hence you and others are hearing what i am not saying. I am just very cautious to play the wife rebellion card to disqualify ones calling.

 

[Mushroom]

The fact that God has used individuals both in scripture (David) and in subsequent history (Carey, Fuller), to further His kingdom are not endorsements of the obviously errant behaviour in which they engaged. Maybe we all ought to be selling our younger brothers into slavery? If not much is said about the Apostles' wives, why would anyone assume they did anything other than treat them lovingly and honorably as scripture instructs us? That would be slanderous. Abandoning a wife is never acceptable for a Christian, much less a Church officer or a missionary. What a perniciously wicked idea! What an insult to the Cross!

I am always confounded by the concept that the disqualifications for Church office are only applicable if they can be proven to be the 'fault' of the potential/serving officer. That is nowhere inferred. Is it a woman's 'fault' she's a woman? Was it a Benjaminite's 'fault' he wasn't a Levite? If a man sees that he does not fulfill the qualifications, regardless of 'fault', it is incumbent upon a Christian man to decline nomination. If a serving officer finds himself no longer qualified (unbelieving children, estranged wife, etc.), regardless of 'fault', it is incumbent upon a Christian man to step down. For some reason that's very rare these days. Maybe if we were more concerned with the peace and purity of the Bride of Christ, such that we would be loathe to bring scandal upon her, than we are with our own prestige and position (and sometimes salary), the Church would be in a far healthier state than She is. None of this was tolerated 100 years ago. Thank you, existentialism and individualism. PAH! Again.

 

[Amazing Grace]

The fact that God has used individuals both in scripture (David) and in subsequent history (Carey, Fuller), to further His kingdom are not endorsements of the obviously errant behaviour in which they engaged. Maybe we all ought to be selling our younger brothers into slavery? If not much is said about the Apostles' wives, why would anyone assume they did anything other than treat them lovingly and honorably as scripture instructs us? That would be slanderous. Abandoning a wife is never acceptable for a Christian, much less a Church officer or a missionary. What a perniciously wicked idea! What an insult to the Cross!

Jesus Christ disagrees with this assessment. "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters -- yes, even his own life --he cannot be my disciple."

If your loyalty to Christ causes pain and tension with family members, you endure that as a Christian, but remain faithful to the Lord. There is no relationship that is more important, there are no person who deserves greater loyalty. This is what's involved; this is the loyalty, this is the depth of commitment necessary to be a follower of Christ.


Gill on Luke 14:26 is exactly what I am attempting to convey. .

not that proper hatred of any, or all of these, is enjoined by Christ; for this would be contrary to the laws of God, to the first principles of nature, to all humanity, to the light of nature, to reason and divine revelation: but that these are not to be preferred to Christ, or loved more than he, as it is explained in ( Matthew 10:37 ) yea, these are to be neglected and forsaken, and turned from with indignation and resentment, when they stand in the way of the honour and interest of Christ, and dissuade from his service: such who would be accounted the disciples of Christ, should be ready to part with their dearest relations and friends, with the greatest enjoyment of life, and with life itself, when Christ calls for it; or otherwise they are not worthy to be called his disciples. The Ethiopic version inserts, "his house", into the account.

Now perhaps I am wrong, which will not be the last time, but if one had to choose between abandoning an unrepentant rebellious wife vs Serving Christ in a calling, Are we not commanded to choose the later and not be disqualified by this inspired choice?