puritanpilgrim
Puritan Board Junior
In Yemen women have to be sure their elbows are covered. In Japan you need be be sure you feet are covered. Men are silly creatures.
Male and Female Modesty
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In Yemen women have to be sure their elbows are covered. In Japan you need be be sure you feet are covered. Men are silly creatures.
ModernPuritan?
Puritan Board Freshman
I think in one sense, Modesty is determined by the culture, but on the other hand, our culture should be defined by Scripture.
1) If i go preaching to a amazon tribe, or a african tribe. I would expect the ladies, to dress modestly according to what their culture says is modest.- and maybe wear a shirt for me.
Not all guys are attracted to females in the same way. I can say honestly, and before God, that the way the girls dress at BJU, does not cause me any problems lust wise. If im determined to sin in that regard, not even the burkha can stop it.
2) as far as Scripture goes, I prefer a simple, Love of God and His Law. for instance it says be not Drunk, yet we do not know from scripture at exactly what second a person is drunk. so we could veare on the faulty use of scripture and say no drink at all, or we could ask ourselves- what would God/Paul say is drunkeness? same with clothing in some respects.
a) what is the problem,
b) what is the solution
c) why is the solution given
d) how is it applied
e) who applies it
1) If i go preaching to a amazon tribe, or a african tribe. I would expect the ladies, to dress modestly according to what their culture says is modest.- and maybe wear a shirt for me.
Not all guys are attracted to females in the same way. I can say honestly, and before God, that the way the girls dress at BJU, does not cause me any problems lust wise. If im determined to sin in that regard, not even the burkha can stop it.
2) as far as Scripture goes, I prefer a simple, Love of God and His Law. for instance it says be not Drunk, yet we do not know from scripture at exactly what second a person is drunk. so we could veare on the faulty use of scripture and say no drink at all, or we could ask ourselves- what would God/Paul say is drunkeness? same with clothing in some respects.
a) what is the problem,
b) what is the solution
c) why is the solution given
d) how is it applied
e) who applies it
puritanpilgrim
Puritan Board Junior
You guys are too much. I am a school teacher, and while I had a free moment I was reading through this thread. I must say...I erupted in laughter while reading through this thread. This is too much. My kids all looked over at me. I about cried I was laughing so hard. I wish Al Martin would read through this and see where the commentary on his sermon has gone.
puritanpilgrim
Puritan Board Junior
It happened again... I have to stop reading PB at work. This is just too funny. Only to an American would you have to break it down like this.
hollandmin
Puritan Board Freshman
those pictures are of the young ladies in the burkas or head scarves, in my opinion seductive, not because what is being worn but because of the expressions of the eyes. It is possible that I'm being a little too critical but hey that's my opinion
The sermon was great! I actually took some notes and will be using them in a sermon that I am prepairing. God bless the old saints of the church!!
Blessings,
The sermon was great! I actually took some notes and will be using them in a sermon that I am prepairing. God bless the old saints of the church!!
Blessings,
Olivetan
Puritan Board Freshman
1 Cor. 8-10
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man: for neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man: for this cause ought the woman to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.
I think these facts hasn't changed because these words are not cultural but timeless truth. And also this part of the bible talks about worship order. Woman should cover her head as a symbol. It is a respect towards her husband and God. It does not matter if you see her hair or not. It does not talk about sexual stuff. She may even use a simple cloth for her hair.
If you talk about modesty, again it has no relation to sexual feelings. If man is deceived, he can create thousand scenarios. He can make headcover a "fetish" The problem is not in woman but in man- vice versa.
My modesty definition is simplicity(does not matter how you see it from sexual point) It changes in different cultures. In my culture if i were woman, i would not do make up, not dress for attracting people. I would wear acceptable(according to my culturte) simple clothes, wash my face and go out. If you do it, nobody looks at you on the street. Because it is not attractive, it is ordinary. This may be weird in other countries. So we should look at it in our own culture.
These are my opinions.
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man: for neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man: for this cause ought the woman to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.
I think these facts hasn't changed because these words are not cultural but timeless truth. And also this part of the bible talks about worship order. Woman should cover her head as a symbol. It is a respect towards her husband and God. It does not matter if you see her hair or not. It does not talk about sexual stuff. She may even use a simple cloth for her hair.
If you talk about modesty, again it has no relation to sexual feelings. If man is deceived, he can create thousand scenarios. He can make headcover a "fetish" The problem is not in woman but in man- vice versa.
My modesty definition is simplicity(does not matter how you see it from sexual point) It changes in different cultures. In my culture if i were woman, i would not do make up, not dress for attracting people. I would wear acceptable(according to my culturte) simple clothes, wash my face and go out. If you do it, nobody looks at you on the street. Because it is not attractive, it is ordinary. This may be weird in other countries. So we should look at it in our own culture.
These are my opinions.
Raj
Puritan Board Sophomore
from our fellowship in Nepal.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rajlife/635085596/in/set-72157600508411604/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rajlife/635085596/in/set-72157600508411604/
Let's get real about this.
I'm feeling you on this one sister. Men are not fully owning up to their lust issues. I can go on and on, but will try to keep it simple.
God in His eternal wisdom did not give us a list. Would it have been difficult for Him to say that the skin of a woman's neck down to her knees, neck to her elbows, and her hair... should not be seen by a man not her husband? Sounds crazy doen't it, but some of you wish that He had spelled it out that way.
Have you ever read Leviticus? Does God withhold details from His word? He gave the priests a detailed description of how they should dress. Could he not have told women how to dress as well? Wait a minute...He has: Deuteronomy 22:5; 1 Timothy 2:9,10; 1 Peter 3:3,4.
If you are offended by someone's clothing it is your responsibilty to inform that person. It's not a woman's responsibility to ask every man in her church (or on the planet) if they believe she is dressed "modestly". Once she is made aware of her specific offense (or the concern), she has a responsibility to act in love toward the offended person(s).
"Oh but we can't do that brother. I'm not going to tell another woman that her dress is causing me to lust. I'm sure not going to tell my wife that I'm lusting after another woman. Such a thing puts me in an unpleasant and potentially vulnerable situation. She should just know. It's obvious!"
No it's not obvious. Welcome to her world.
I've had a conversation with a man in my church tell me about how he teaches his daughter to dress modestly, and another man in the church elude to how the young lady doesn't dress modestly. Everyone has different standards for different things. If it is not spelled out in the scripture word for word, or in principle, it is a liberty. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with the sufficiency of scripture (2 Timothy 3:16,17).
How should we practice our liberties? Read Romans 14.
I'm feeling you on this one sister. Men are not fully owning up to their lust issues. I can go on and on, but will try to keep it simple.
God in His eternal wisdom did not give us a list. Would it have been difficult for Him to say that the skin of a woman's neck down to her knees, neck to her elbows, and her hair... should not be seen by a man not her husband? Sounds crazy doen't it, but some of you wish that He had spelled it out that way.
Have you ever read Leviticus? Does God withhold details from His word? He gave the priests a detailed description of how they should dress. Could he not have told women how to dress as well? Wait a minute...He has: Deuteronomy 22:5; 1 Timothy 2:9,10; 1 Peter 3:3,4.
If you are offended by someone's clothing it is your responsibilty to inform that person. It's not a woman's responsibility to ask every man in her church (or on the planet) if they believe she is dressed "modestly". Once she is made aware of her specific offense (or the concern), she has a responsibility to act in love toward the offended person(s).
"Oh but we can't do that brother. I'm not going to tell another woman that her dress is causing me to lust. I'm sure not going to tell my wife that I'm lusting after another woman. Such a thing puts me in an unpleasant and potentially vulnerable situation. She should just know. It's obvious!"
No it's not obvious. Welcome to her world.
I've had a conversation with a man in my church tell me about how he teaches his daughter to dress modestly, and another man in the church elude to how the young lady doesn't dress modestly. Everyone has different standards for different things. If it is not spelled out in the scripture word for word, or in principle, it is a liberty. If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with the sufficiency of scripture (2 Timothy 3:16,17).
How should we practice our liberties? Read Romans 14.
This is very interesting. Indian men (from India) find exposed women's legs as very sexy.
So women wear the Sari. It is a long dress but it exposes women's waist or belly. In the Philippines, it is unbecoming when a woman exposes her stomach or waist in public.
The Chinese and Thais think the woman's neck look sexy when exposed so they design women's blouses to cover the neck, hence the Chinese colar for women.
There's no end to Cultural definition of what is seductive. If it is not the woman's legs , it is her eyes, if not her eyes, it is her slim waist. The fallen mind will lust anyway. Muslim men will imagine what's underneath the veil and that long dress that cover women. heey girls, where can we go? Being female will seduce men anyway thin or fat!
To be modest is to simply not provoke men to lust. How we dress speaks of who we are.
Make the skirts a little longer and cover more flesh. Also make one's lifestyle modest-avoid the appearance of evil in all our actions and words. Modesty also is defined where you are, if you are in your own bathroom---what's the rule? If I am with my husband alone, well, he doesn't care if I have a dress on or not. Help, I just want to be normal and appropriate at any time and at any place. I want to glorify God in my body! The only sure hope for man's mind to become pure is when the body is resurrected---by then , there will be no more lust.
That's all folks!
So women wear the Sari. It is a long dress but it exposes women's waist or belly. In the Philippines, it is unbecoming when a woman exposes her stomach or waist in public.
The Chinese and Thais think the woman's neck look sexy when exposed so they design women's blouses to cover the neck, hence the Chinese colar for women.
There's no end to Cultural definition of what is seductive. If it is not the woman's legs , it is her eyes, if not her eyes, it is her slim waist. The fallen mind will lust anyway. Muslim men will imagine what's underneath the veil and that long dress that cover women. heey girls, where can we go? Being female will seduce men anyway thin or fat!
To be modest is to simply not provoke men to lust. How we dress speaks of who we are.
Make the skirts a little longer and cover more flesh. Also make one's lifestyle modest-avoid the appearance of evil in all our actions and words. Modesty also is defined where you are, if you are in your own bathroom---what's the rule? If I am with my husband alone, well, he doesn't care if I have a dress on or not. Help, I just want to be normal and appropriate at any time and at any place. I want to glorify God in my body! The only sure hope for man's mind to become pure is when the body is resurrected---by then , there will be no more lust.
That's all folks!
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i agree with you. we should dress as ladies (but not get so focused on what we wear that clothing becomes an idol). It helps to get input from the menfolk but we need to think before we walk out of the house. The men ALSO should be mature enough to control themselves and not get consumed with lust for anyone other than their wife.
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