John MacArthur on Newsnight
- Thread starter Bladestunner316
- Start date
- Status
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
Odd that I've never seen MacArthur take on his anti-lordship dispensationalist friends in the public media. I'm not aware that Warren has ever tried to pick a fight with MacArthur.
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
I think its good its gets out into the open that werenot all seeker sensistive.
blade
blade
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
We're not dispensationalists either, but would we take the opportunity to go on a national news broadcast to declare MacArthur's error in this area?
If we're gonn lump Warren in with folks like Hybels, et al, should not we be lumping MacArthur in with Jack Van Impe and the pop dispie crowd.
You may be unaware of this, Tom (& others) but Warren picks a fight at each of his seminars to proselytize attendees - where he flat-out disparages the historic-Biblical Faith. His agenda is to go-after established Church order and replace it with his own demonic - anti-Christian "church government." His tactics are more dangerous than John Wimber.
Setting-aside all our differences - at least MacArthur is truly defending the Gospel! Warren has a decidedly enthusiastic bent on dismantling the very locus where the Gospel is to be dispensed from: the church. (Harold Camping has nothing on Warren.)
All the Modern Reformation boys are long over-due in speaking out against Warren specifically. One wonders why....
Robin
turmeric
Megerator
Besides, this isn't specifically the anti-Lordship thing, he's not taking Dallas Seminary on publicly, this is the seeker-sensitive thing. WHY IS ANYONE ON THIS BOARD DEFENDING WARREN? Are we even sure he's a fellow-believer?
What about the Book of Jude? It seems like Johny Mac's just doing his job.
What about the Book of Jude? It seems like Johny Mac's just doing his job.
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
John MacArthur may be dispie but at least he defends the gospel. Last time I checked Macarthur wasnt a VanImpe or tele-evangelist trying to make a busk on tv. If youve seen him on tv he is far more respectable and Christian then the other softies.
Blade
Blade
Originally posted by Robin
You may be unaware of this, Tom (& others) but Warren picks a fight at each of his seminars to proselytize attendees - where he flat-out disparages the historic-Biblical Faith. His agenda is to go-after established Church order and replace it with his own demonic - anti-Christian "church government." His tactics are more dangerous than John Wimber.
Setting-aside all our differences - at least MacArthur is truly defending the Gospel! Warren has a decidedly enthusiastic bent on dismantling the very locus where the Gospel is to be dispensed from: the church. (Harold Camping has nothing on Warren.)
All the Modern Reformation boys are long over-due in speaking out against Warren specifically. One wonders why....
Robin
Robin,
You need to be very careful here and provide specifics. Harold Camping has made very specific heretical statements that have been very specifically repudiated by teachers in Christ's Church. While I have no hunger for Warren's materials, he is no where near in the league of arch-heretics Camping and Wimber (both of whom have claimed "prophetic" status in pushing their new doctrine).
I know it is good sport here to bash Warren, but I won't have either Warren or MacArthur compared to such heretics without specific citations from the man to that effect.
Consider this an Admin warning.
Originally posted by fredtgreco
Originally posted by Robin
You may be unaware of this, Tom (& others) but Warren picks a fight at each of his seminars to proselytize attendees - where he flat-out disparages the historic-Biblical Faith. His agenda is to go-after established Church order and replace it with his own demonic - anti-Christian "church government." His tactics are more dangerous than John Wimber.
Setting-aside all our differences - at least MacArthur is truly defending the Gospel! Warren has a decidedly enthusiastic bent on dismantling the very locus where the Gospel is to be dispensed from: the church. (Harold Camping has nothing on Warren.)
All the Modern Reformation boys are long over-due in speaking out against Warren specifically. One wonders why....
Robin
Robin,
You need to be very careful here and provide specifics. Harold Camping has made very specific heretical statements that have been very specifically repudiated by teachers in Christ's Church. While I have no hunger for Warren's materials, he is no where near in the league of arch-heretics Camping and Wimber (both of whom have claimed "prophetic" status in pushing their new doctrine).
I know it is good sport here to bash Warren, but I won't have either Warren or MacArthur compared to such heretics without specific citations from the man to that effect.
Consider this an Admin warning.
Fred -- you're right --- the time has come for citations....and there will be. (I assumed it was common knowledge, since much is coming to the fore these days...) Warren has taken a more subtler route to validate his ministry. I live near Saddleback -- am witness to the services - know Warren's followers; I knew John Wimber; witnessed his descent into heresy; I worked with Walter Martin in the first examination of Robert Schuller, et al. I assure you I have personal knowledge of what I assert.
I don't have much time at this very moment (I'll post more next week...) but until then, take a look at some sound analysis about the PDL and the Gnostic connection:
http://www.sacredsandwich.com/warren_scripture.htm
http://www.challies.com/archives/000736.php
Not only does Warren weave an intricate tangled web with his translations; he promotes occultic practices via his SHAPE program; promotes mysticism/contemplative prayer & new age writers; has pagan worship services (Hawaiian hula dances)....Gasp! (At this moment, I am looking at a flyer from Saddleback- an advertisement for a "Hula Worship" service - complete with classes on lei making. The hula dancers - up on the stage in front of a "flaming cross" a la' luau style - in the church.) If I can scan this flyer on the Hawaiian hula worship event, held in one of Rick's "worshipvenues" I'll get it to you next week. (Now, there's a question: what is a worship venue? More about THAT later...)
This is not bashing....it is true that Warren has an agenda to replace the church's style of worship - he has said as much in his P.E.A.C.E plan; public addresses; and is currently systematically undermining the Gospel and orthodox doctrine in all churches.
Warren's comment at a seminar RE: traditional music: "You see folks, to insist that all good music came from Europe 200 years ago is thinly veiled racism, if you want to be truthful about it. It's cultural elitism saying that all the good music was written 200 years ago in Europe.... Now for 2,000 years, the Holy Spirit has used all kinds of music. And to insist that one particular style of music is more sacred than the other, there's a word for that. It's called idolatry. Idolatry."
Warren's justification for only using positive Bible verses in his teachings:
"Read Scripture from a newer translation. And as you read that Scripture, realize that you're trying to pick out Scriptures that appeal especially to baby boomers. And try to find Scriptures that specifically relate to the benefits that Christ can bring into a person's life. They've never heard the Scripture before, so try to pick positive Scriptures that talk about the benefits of Christ... you want to pick out Scriptures that are very positive."
Much more can be said --- for now, it's best to check-out the links. I'll have more quotes next week if anybody cares.
I have no interest in bashing btw --- those of us Reformed in the Southern California area are engaged in a battle for the Gospel -- which Warren presently confuses and undermines. Family members and friends are impacted by this poison....our pastors suffer intimidation; discouragement and temptation from Saddleback's presence in the area. (Not to mention the shame brought upon the name of Christ due to the reputation of Saddleback's members and their conduct and tactics....) There is a very real struggle at work here.
Researchers are increasingly vexed by what is emerging....more will come to light - hopefully, soon.
R.
- Status
