In God's Worship, if He has not commanded it, He has forbidden it

[NaphtaliPress]

God hates worship of Himself that comes from the invention of man, whether it is old fashioned high liturgical theatrics or modern high tech theatrics.
“The Second Commandment lays down the regulative principle of worship: it forbids idolatry." James Harper, An exposition in the form of question and answer of the Westminster Assembly's Shorter catechism (United Presbyterian Board of Publication, 1905) 221. “Lately Professor of Theology in the Theological Seminary, Xenia, Ohio.”

“I know how difficult it is to persuade the world that God disapproves of all modes of worship not expressly sanctioned by his word.” “On the Necessity of Reforming the Church” Selected Works of John Calvin: Tracts and Letters. 1.128-129.

John Knox. 1550. All wirschipping, honoring,or service inventit by the braine of man in the religioun of God, without his own express commandment, is Idolatrie. “Vindication of the Doctrine that the Sacrifice of the Mass is Idolatry” Works, ed. David Laing (Edinburgh: Printed for the Bannatyne Club, 1854) 3.34.

Samuel Rutherford. In the rites of God's Worship "Not to command, is to forbid." Divine Right of Church Government (1646), p. 96.

 

[Grant]

This was one of the strangest things to find how widespread candle lighting was/is in “RPW” confessing churches as one who was raised in the SBC and moved over to Reformed Presbyterianism. This superstitious practice seems to be a rather obvious 2CV, but many a Presbyterian minister will defend it by some supposed technicality.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

It is interesting to observe how @NaphtaliPress has jumped on the memes bandwagon.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

It is interesting to observe how @NaphtaliPress has jumped on the memes bandwagon.

Last year when I figured it out and posted this I said I would now be insufferable.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Posting this to chat to see if it posts in the forum thread (so, this is a test).

 

[NaphtaliPress]

You may have noticed you can check options to create a chat and chat room out of a new thread when created and check a box that posts there post to the forum thread and vice versa.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

What is the advantage or benefit of creating a chat room?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

What is the advantage or benefit of creating a chat room?

I don't really know; I hardly go there.

 

[WithinThePale]

Any idea how to influence one's elders towards more regulation of worship? We have a fairly fixed form of Sunday service, I'd like to see it codified

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Any idea how to influence one's elders towards more regulation of worship? We have a fairly fixed form of Sunday service, I'd like to see it codified

This was a locked thread due to how old it is. How were you able to post?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

You may have noticed you can check options to create a chat and chat room out of a new thread when created and check a box that posts there post to the forum thread and vice versa.

Apparently this may be what is messing with the auto lock for the thread. I've unlocked it simply to remove the notice since it is compromised by the link to chat.

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2025

Any idea how to influence one's elders towards more regulation of worship? We have a fairly fixed form of Sunday service, I'd like to see it codified

Have conversations about the ordering of worship by Scripture alone; start questioning specific practices in light of the necessity of Scriptural prescription needed for each part of worship.

 

[Wilhelmus à Broccoli]

I was reading yesterday in 2 Kings and 2 Kings 18:22 is fascinating to me.

"But if you say to me, 'We are depending on the Lord our God'—isn’t he the one whose high places and altars Hezekiah removed, saying to Judah and Jerusalem, 'You must worship before this altar in Jerusalem'?"

We think of the good kings of Israel as putting the kibosh on idolatry (i.e., the express worship of gods other than Jehovah) but in fact the high places were perceived by the nations as Yahwist. This statement from an Assyrian diplomat resembles a lot of modern cries for "unity" and for churches to stop being zealous for non-salvific issues like how we worship God.

I've read elsewhere that the golden calves of Aaron and Jeroboam were also intended as representations of the true God rather than new pagan gods, based on their identity (both times) as "the god that brought you out of Egypt." That, I'm not as certain about, but it is certain that irreverent and uncommanded worship of the right God was a large part of Israel's idolatry and apostasy.

 

[michael_topple]

This statement from an Assyrian diplomat resembles a lot of modern cries for "unity" and for churches to stop being zealous for non-salvific issues like how we worship God.

… and of course this is the big issue. Yes perhaps forms of worship aren’t salvific in and of themselves, but they say an awful lot about our desire to be obedient to God’s Word, and to do all we can to please Him.
If we aren’t even willing to format our worship (which let’s remember is His worship) in accordance with His Word, then it is a pretty poor sign isn’t it.

I’d never noticed that in 2 Kings. Thanks for sharing. In Family Worship last evening we were studying Leviticus 10. Dr Beeke’s FW Companion Bible Guide was invaluable as ever:

1. Nadab and Abihu's sin concerned God's worship. Serious consequences followed because they departed from God's Word. There must be no "will worship" (Col. 2:23) such as worshipping as man wants and not as God commands. Divine worship is not a secondary issue. God is jealous for pure worship because it belongs to His glory. The contrast between the fire of blessing in chapter 9 and the fire of wrath here is instructive. Blessing was preceded by obedience; wrath was preceded by disobedience. Both revealed God's glory, and both were received with reverent fear. What principles must direct the church's worship if it is to obey God and honor His holiness?

2. Aaron's silence at the loss of his sons is impressive. Are you able to acknowledge the Lord in His chastisements (Heb. 12:5-6)? When we submit to God, we accept His discipline, then He sanctifies it to our good and His glory.

3. Fleshly and intoxicating worship is an abomination to God. This is why strong drink was forbidden to the priests (1 Tim. 3:8). Today, fleshly excesses mark worship styles in many churches. Use of worldly music and bodily movement appeal to the flesh instead of the understanding (Ps. 47:7), violate Scripture (Isa. 66:2; John 4:24), and resemble the worship of the heathen (Ex. 32:6-8). How can we ensure that we worship God in a reverent and glorifying way as He fills our praises (Ps. 22:3)?

 

[WithinThePale]

but in fact the high places were perceived by the nations as Yahwist.

This is how so many people within the church perceive various traditions, like Christmas and Easter, and the the perceptions of those outside the church are often no less accurate on average. It's tragic, as they are a terribly heavy load to bear

 

[Parakaleo]

Exodus 20:25 is a go-to passage for me on this matter. Very succinct and to the point. The Lord abhors man's innovations and ad-libbing in his worship.

 

[Brownie]

I was reading yesterday in 2 Kings and 2 Kings 18:22 is fascinating to me.

"But if you say to me, 'We are depending on the Lord our God'—isn’t he the one whose high places and altars Hezekiah removed, saying to Judah and Jerusalem, 'You must worship before this altar in Jerusalem'?"

We think of the good kings of Israel as putting the kibosh on idolatry (i.e., the express worship of gods other than Jehovah) but in fact the high places were perceived by the nations as Yahwist. This statement from an Assyrian diplomat resembles a lot of modern cries for "unity" and for churches to stop being zealous for non-salvific issues like how we worship God.

I noticed this too a few weeks ago, but also that a lot of Judah's kings didn't remove the high places and yet it is written that they did what was right in the sight of the LORD. It's expressly noted that it was wrong to not remove the high places and it should have been done, but God is also very merciful when the heart belongs to Him.
I also wonder what this says to us. When we are a member of a church that celebrates Christmas, how hard should we fight to throw it out and how much should we accept from brethren whose hearts belong to God? I know that Rom. 14:5 is tradionally explained as speaking of OT holy days, but I wonder if the example of Judah's kings wasn't also on Paul's mind when he wrote the chapter.