Home stand by generators?

[NaphtaliPress]

Ok. One power failure too many. Anybody have any knowledge/experience with purchasing and installing a standby generator to run their house if the power fails (standby=always on; not talking about a portable honda unit here)? I've looked online but thought I'd tap into the knowledge base here. It will be very expensive but we have had over 60 days over 100 degrees here this summer and its a health concern for my mother and perhaps prudent given the greater frequency of losing power and other unknown threats in todays environment. I know i'll have to call an electrician to give an assessment of our needs but any advice here (possible problems or things to avoid) would be appreciated.

 

[Croghanite]

Ahh, something I know. Dont worry my brother this is what I do for a living. I must go now but I will post the info you need later.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Very good! Thanks Joe.

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
Ahh, something I know. Dont worry my brother this is what I do for a living. I must go now but I will post the info you need later.

 

[Croghanite]

Guardian generator systems are awesome. AKA Generac http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Default.aspx

From the web page you can see the different products and find a dealer close to you.

The system comes with an automatic transfer switch (ATS). Within 15 seconds it will transfer from normal to standby and when it senses normal power has returned, it transfers back. The generator itself can be fueled by natural gas or propane. It also does an automatic weekly start-up and system check.

Dealer costs for the 12kw with the ATS is $2550. Your local home depot is an authorized dealer of these gen sets and can set up Installation. They usually have one in stock for people to examine.

[Edited on 8-28-2006 by LAYMAN JOE]

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Thanks Joe. Do you know of any negatives to the Generacs. I found them online this morning. Also, I have a rather odd situation in that we are wired for one phase for everything except the a/c which is on 3 phase power. Do you know how this complicates matters?

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
Guardian generator systems are awesome. AKA Generac http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Default.aspx

From the web page you can see the different products and find a dealer close to you.

The system comes with an automatic transfer switch (ATS). Within 15 seconds it will transfer from normal to standby and when it senses normal power has returned, it transfers back. The generator itself can be fueled by natural gas or propane. It also does an automatic weekly start-up and system check.

Dealer costs for the 12kw with the ATS is $2550. Your local home depot is an authorized dealer of these gen sets and can set up Installation. They usually have one in stock for people to examine.

[Edited on 8-28-2006 by LAYMAN JOE]

 

[Croghanite]

"Also, I have a rather odd situation in that we are wired for one phase for everything except the a/c which is on 3 phase power. Do you know how this complicates matters?"

Are you sure about this? If so than YES it highly complicates things! Try to explain what power you have comming into your house ie. how many wires, voltages, how many panels. This may need to turn in to a phone call.

 

[Croghanite]

As far as negatives go... It depends on how hands on you are. The oil needs changing and that sort of thing but all generators have this negative aspect. The authorized dealer/installer will offer a preventive maintenance contract with you that should cover these needed oil changes along with other maintenance checks.

Oh, they are somewhat loud but they sell a "QUIET SOURCE" line that runs quieter. Once again this is what you must deal with if you want standby power.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Joe,
Yes; pretty sure. We've lost the a/c before without losing power to the rest of the house and the a/c guys have remarked on it before; the time we lost a/c they said the 3 phase went out. As to the details of panels and lines, I surely don't know without checking and writing it down; and its dark now. But presuming it is true, what are we talking about, two separate generators? One for commercial 3 phase for the a/c and one for the regular residential 1 phase power?

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
"Also, I have a rather odd situation in that we are wired for one phase for everything except the a/c which is on 3 phase power. Do you know how this complicates matters?"

Are you sure about this? If so than YES it highly complicates things! Try to explain what power you have comming into your house ie. how many wires, voltages, how many panels. This may need to turn in to a phone call.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

No hands on at all I'm afraid, so maintenance contract is probably a given, given the investment. I've looked at the Quiet Source, which appears to only apply to the weekly check ups; I presume it is much louder if required to run in full mode? Any way to cut down the noise more? Can the units be housed inside a maintence shed, outbuilding or do they have to be standing in open air?

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
As far as negatives go... It depends on how hands on you are. The oil needs changing and that sort of thing but all generators have this negative aspect. The authorized dealer/installer will offer a preventive maintenance contract with you that should cover these needed oil changes along with other maintenance checks.

Oh, they are somewhat loud but they sell a "QUIET SOURCE" line that runs quieter. Once again this is what you must deal with if you want standby power.

 

[Croghanite]

It needs air to cool it down. I have never heard of (1) single phase and (1) three phase system going into a residence. This is very odd. We should talk by phone. I will U2U my number.

 

[Croghanite]

The best suggestion I can make is to get a dealer to come to your home (FREE) and give you an estimate. Then we will take it from there.

[Edited on 8-29-2006 by LAYMAN JOE]

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Yes; that sounds like what I need to do, call the local dealer.

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
The best suggestion I can make is to get a dealer to come to your home (FREE) and give you an estimate. Then we will take it from there.

[Edited on 8-29-2006 by LAYMAN JOE]

 

[LawrenceU]

Guys, it is odd. But, I just finished rehabbing a house that had a six tonne three phase unit on it. The homeowner said that the contractor who originally built the house for him sold him on the idea due to greater efficiency. What he didn't know is that running the three phase service to his house is why his house when WAY over cost. Not until I told him. Crazy.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

In the 1950s to early 1960s evidently folks were doing this in our neighborhood. Or it may have been available because of some of the older large mansions that dotted the area before the housing started going in in the late 1940s.

 

[gwine]

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
"Also, I have a rather odd situation in that we are wired for one phase for everything except the a/c which is on 3 phase power. Do you know how this complicates matters?"

Are you sure about this? If so than YES it highly complicates things! Try to explain what power you have comming into your house ie. how many wires, voltages, how many panels. This may need to turn in to a phone call.

I wonder if he has 3 wire and not 3 phase. If all three of the wires going to the A/C are the same color then it probably is 3 phase, but if two are black and one is white then it is 240 volt 2 phase. 3 phase will have 208 volts between any two legs, whereas 2 phase will have 240 volts between the two black (hot) legs and 120 volts from the black to the white (neutral) leg.

Don't try this at home if you're uncomfortable opening up the panel. Trust me, you don't want to connect to 208 or 240 volts. Although I've been bit by 480 (stupid me) and that doesn't feel too good, either.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Thanks for the lead Gerry; I may simply call my ac guy and ask him to check our files if I cannot verify anything here by looking or looking at the last install of the last new compressor.

Originally posted by gwine

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
"Also, I have a rather odd situation in that we are wired for one phase for everything except the a/c which is on 3 phase power. Do you know how this complicates matters?"

Are you sure about this? If so than YES it highly complicates things! Try to explain what power you have comming into your house ie. how many wires, voltages, how many panels. This may need to turn in to a phone call.

I wonder if he has 3 wire and not 3 phase. If all three of the wires going to the A/C are the same color then it probably is 3 phase, but if two are black and one is white then it is 240 volt 2 phase. 3 phase will have 208 volts between any two legs, whereas 2 phase will have 240 volts between the two black (hot) legs and 120 volts from the black to the white (neutral) leg.

Don't try this at home if you're uncomfortable opening up the panel. Trust me, you don't want to connect to 208 or 240 volts. Although I've been bit by 480 (stupid me) and that doesn't feel too good, either.

 

[Croghanite]

Does your house have two seperate panels and two seperate lines comming from your Utility feed (pole or under ground)? Are all the breakers in your home inside of one panel?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Yes; two separate panels but cannot tell if two lines as it appears all comes to one poll on the roof and down. See below. I am checking records in a bit, but maybe this will illustrate?

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
Does your house have two seperate panels and two seperate lines comming from your Utility feed (pole or under ground)? Are all the breakers in your home inside of one panel?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

In addition to the above I have found the following confirmation from a repair ticket from 2002, Compressor Out or overload due to missing leg of 3phase. Oncor came and repaired power on pole in street ... Reset Compressor & checked operation after power restored. This was the time we lost a/c but nothing else.

 

[Croghanite]

It is hard to figure out what you have got this way. Call me whenever you want before 10pm est. If you feel like taking more pics, try to take close up pics of the Disconnect that feeds the AC and the main Panel. Only open them if you are TOTALLY confident you wont get hurt.

Or you can call a local dealer, get his hands on opinion, then call me up.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Ok. See below. Has three fuses if that tells you anything in the ac box. I will give you a call tonight if you think that will help. Otherwise, I'm game to get a dealer out to give me the run down.

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
It is hard to figure out what you have got this way. Call me whenever you want before 10pm est. If you feel like taking more pics, try to take close up pics of the Disconnect that feeds the AC and the main Panel. Only open them if you are TOTALLY confident you wont get hurt.

Or you can call a local dealer, get his hands on opinion, then call me up.

 

[Croghanite]

Yes, call me. It looks to be 3 phase and that poses $$$ problems.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Originally posted by LAYMAN JOE
Yes, call me. It looks to be 3 phase and that poses $$$ problems.

Story of my life; send me a U2U when you can take a call. Thanks for all the input Joe.