Hell and Heaven where art thou?

[Bladestunner316]

Where from what we can gather in scripture is hell and heaven?

Are these purely spiritual realms not seen?

Or are these physical places and if so where would they be?

blade

 

[Puritan Sailor]

[quote:190c16e5ec][i:190c16e5ec]Originally posted by Bladestunner316[/i:190c16e5ec]
Where from what we can gather in scripture is hell and heaven?

Are these purely spiritual realms not seen?

Or are these physical places and if so where would they be?

blade [/quote:190c16e5ec]
Both are pictures of standing in the presence of the Almighty for eternity. The difference is that those in heaven have a Mediator who has secured the blessing of heaven for them. Those in hell have no mediator and therefeor stand before God in His eternal wrath for their sin. Will there be geographic seperation? Somehow yes, but we will still be able to see each other. We can see that in Luke 16 regarding the rich man and Lazuras and in Revelation 19:3 where we see a picture of the smoke of the prostitute rising up for ever and ever. Those in hell will see those in heaven and mourn even more, and those in heaven will see those in hell and glorify God for his justice in punishing sin and His mercy in saving them from it.

 

[dado6]

They are spiritual places prior to the resurrection (intermediate state) and physical thereafter (eternal state). The bible is clear as to the eternal state of both the church and pagans. It is also fairly clear as to the intermediate condition of believers. The intermediate state of unbelievers is not quite as plain however; references to Hell/Hades are made mostly as threats of judgment for present behavior and the more descriptive passages (Is 14:9, Luke 16:19-31, Rev 20:5) are controversial, with little consensus as to their reference to the actual intermediate state.

R.C. Sproul has just finished a radio series on heaven and hell:
heaven and hell 6/7-6/18

Loraine Boettner's book Immortality is a good source as well.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[mjbee]

Matt's article entitled "Hell's Terror" is one of the best I've ever read. It was so compelling I printed it out and I keep it in the front of my Strong's.

 

[The0]

[quote:674582294a][i:674582294a]Originally posted by puritansailor[/i:674582294a]
[quote:674582294a][i:674582294a]Originally posted by Bladestunner316[/i:674582294a]
Where from what we can gather in scripture is hell and heaven?

Are these purely spiritual realms not seen?

Or are these physical places and if so where would they be?


blade [/quote:674582294a]
Both are pictures of standing in the presence of the Almighty for eternity. The difference is that those in heaven have a Mediator who has secured the blessing of heaven for them. Those in hell have no mediator and therefeor stand before God in His eternal wrath for their sin. Will there be geographic seperation? Somehow yes, but we will still be able to see each other. We can see that in Luke 16 regarding the rich man and Lazuras and in Revelation 19:3 where we see a picture of the smoke of the prostitute rising up for ever and ever. Those in hell will see those in heaven and mourn even more, and those in heaven will see those in hell and glorify God for his justice in punishing sin and His mercy in saving them from it. [/quote:674582294a]

I have an inquiry. After death, Scripture says that the body returns to the earth from which it was taken, and the spirit returns to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7). The Scripture on this point does not discriminate between believer and unbeliever, so I conclude that the spirits of the believers as well as unbelievers return to God who gave them and their bodies return to the earth to become dust. So, what part of the believer goes to "heaven" and what part of the unbeliever goes to "hell"? It appears from Ecc. 12:7 that the spirits of both go back to the same place, God.

Also, the Scripture teaches that it is established for man to die ONCE, and after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27). I know from the Bible that this judgment has not occurred yet; that is, men have not been judged yet, so this passage cannot mean that man is immediately judged, sentenced and sent to his "prison". So, if they have not been judged yet and have not received their punishment, how come they are already in the place of their punishment and ALREADY suffering? I say the same for the believers. If they have not received their reward, how come they are already enjoying it?

 

[Puritan Sailor]

[quote:db2138b3dc][i:db2138b3dc]Originally posted by The0[/i:db2138b3dc]
I have an inquiry. After death, Scripture says that the body returns to the earth from which it was taken, and the spirit returns to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7). The Scripture on this point does not discriminate between believer and unbeliever, so I conclude that the spirits of the believers as well as unbelievers return to God who gave them and their bodies return to the earth to become dust. So, what part of the believer goes to "heaven" and what part of the unbeliever goes to "hell"? It appears from Ecc. 12:7 that the spirits of both go back to the same place, God.
[/quote:db2138b3dc]
Well, that verse is not the clearest idea, so we must interpret it with others. Until the final resurection all who die go to an immediate state, the believers to "Abraham's Bosom" or heaven, and the unbelievers to hell (Luke 16). At the resurrection all will be reunited to their bodies and judged and sentenced accordingly, the believers to continue in their enjoyment of Christ, the unbeliever to continue in their condemnation because they refused the Mediator. BOth of these states take place in the direct presence of God, the difference is that believers have a Mediator who has made propitiation, the unbelievers stand before God without a Mediator and burn.

[quote:db2138b3dc]
Also, the Scripture teaches that it is established for man to die ONCE, and after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27). I know from the Bible that this judgment has not occurred yet; that is, men have not been judged yet, so this passage cannot mean that man is immediately judged, sentenced and sent to his "prison". So, if they have not been judged yet and have not received their punishment, how come they are already in the place of their punishment and ALREADY suffering? I say the same for the believers. If they have not received their reward, how come they are already enjoying it? [/quote:db2138b3dc]
John 3:16-19 tells us that those who do not believe stand condemned already. This is even before they died. God has already declared the sentence, just as he has when we are justified by faith. The declaration has already been made. The final judgment then is more a public trial before the universe confirming everything that has already been judged, and the judgments brought to completion and consumation, where the wicked will finally see their end, and the righteous will finally inherit their reward in Christ and be avenged by their heavenly Father. Everyone will see who the sheep and goats are and every secret of men will be revealed.

 

[The0]

[quote:d457539670][i:d457539670]Originally posted by puritansailor[/i:d457539670]
[quote:d457539670]
Well, that verse is not the clearest idea, so we must interpret it with others. Until the final resurection all who die go to an immediate state, the believers to "Abraham's Bosom" or heaven, and the unbelievers to hell (Luke 16). At the resurrection all will be reunited to their bodies and judged and sentenced accordingly, the believers to continue in their enjoyment of Christ, the unbeliever to continue in their condemnation because they refused the Mediator. BOth of these states take place in the direct presence of God, the difference is that believers have a Mediator who has made propitiation, the unbelievers stand before God without a Mediator and burn. [/quote:d457539670]

To be honest, it sounds pretty clear to me. I could not contradict this. I guess this touches on the nature of man (body, soul and spirit). Ecclesiastes mentions the body and the spirit, but not the soul. But Genesis says that Adam (after receiving the breath of God) BECAME A LIVING SOUL. This tells me that before God breathed in his nostrils, he was an INANIMATE soul. So, the body in union with the spirit is a soul. When the body dies, the spirit goes back to God, the body to the earth and the sould ceases to exist because of the separation of body and spirit. How I wish I could go to the other side!!! :bs2:

[quote:d457539670]
Also, the Scripture teaches that it is established for man to die ONCE, and after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27). I know from the Bible that this judgment has not occurred yet; that is, men have not been judged yet, so this passage cannot mean that man is immediately judged, sentenced and sent to his "prison". So, if they have not been judged yet and have not received their punishment, how come they are already in the place of their punishment and ALREADY suffering? I say the same for the believers. If they have not received their reward, how come they are already enjoying it? [/quote:d457539670]

John 3:16-19 tells us that those who do not believe stand condemned already. This is even before they died.[/quote:d457539670]

True! I suppose we can say the same for those predestined for life. They are saved even before they come to Christ. Young's literal translation of the Bible renders "JUDGED", not "condemned".

More on this later. Gotta go!

In Christ.