Gay Bishop Is Asked to Say Prayer at Inaugural Event

[Scott Shahan]

Wondering what some of you think of this??

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/us/13prayer.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=Bishop robinson&st=cse

 

[Zenas]

Someone beat you to it. Already a thread on it somewhere.

 

[OPC'n]

I think it's appropriate for the heathen country in which we live. I can't expect anymore from my country than this. Maybe this will be a wake up call to the believers that America really does need missionaries to tell it to repent and turn to Christ. America probably "knows" about a loving god, but it needs to know about our wrathful and loving God.

 

[Hawaiian Puritan]

I think they wanted to get a non-Christian to demonstrate diversity.

 

[Scott Shahan]

Someone beat you to it. Already a thread on it somewhere.

oops...I should have looked before I posted this... This story has been in my head all day long. The thing that bugs me about this is the pluralism/relativism under the guise of "christianity!! If Obama wants to please everyone then go get a Islamic rabbi to pray, then go get a jewish rabbi and a minister of scientology, and whatever else to pray...... But having a so called "bishop" who is "representing the Christian faith", who suggests pluralism and relativism makes me SICK!! The reference in the article to " a god of your understanding" is just another way of saying create and your own idol out of your own imagination.... Or in a sense saying we need to recognize the other idols in this country that people like to worship. We better make a prayer that includes those idols also, so the prayer will be all-inclusive and so no one is excluded. We want to make sure everyone is happy with all of their false idols..... This kind of reminds me of a certain pastor in this city who pastors a methodist church...The pastor of this church really believes that all of the world's religions are just "another way" to get to God. This pastor has been in this church for the last twenty years!!! unbelievable!! It's the relativism and pluralism that I cant stomach!!! It is so decieving and misleading.......

 

[BJClark]

Well, according to the article he does not plan to use the Bible..which brings me some comfort--

I don't pay attention to this man, and didn't know until I read an article recently that he had been married and has kids..

 

[raekwon]

Yeah, it's actually comforting that he plans to purposely "include" others by excluding Jesus from his prayer. One less time His name will be taken in vain.

 

[Marrow Man]

Blogged about it here.

Essentially, Robinson is the epitome of the modern American "evangelical." The Bible is discarded when it is inconvenient or offensive, historic doctrines are meaningless unless defending one's orthodoxy, and final truth is determined by one's subjective religious experiences.

 

[FenderPriest]

Yeah, it's actually comforting that he plans to purposely "include" others by excluding Jesus from his prayer. One less time His name will be taken in vain.

In the interview I heard with him last night on NPR, he said he will pray "In the name of the god of our many understandings"...

 

[Tripel]

The Bible is discarded when it is inconvenient or offensive

That's because all of that offensive stuff doesn't really belong. The Bible is SUPPOSED to be all about love. It's all about the love, man!

 

[Marrow Man]

Yeah, it's actually comforting that he plans to purposely "include" others by excluding Jesus from his prayer. One less time His name will be taken in vain.

In the interview I heard with him last night on NPR, he said he will pray "In the name of the god of our many understandings"...

Yep, Michael Horton has a chapter in Christless Christianity entitled "Your Own Personal Jesus."

Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was. ~ 2 Tim 3:8-9

 

[raekwon]

Yeah, it's actually comforting that he plans to purposely "include" others by excluding Jesus from his prayer. One less time His name will be taken in vain.

In the interview I heard with him last night on NPR, he said he will pray "In the name of the god of our many understandings"...

Yep, I listened to that same interview last night. I was like "well, at least he's getting closer to admitting that he's abandoned the faith."

 

[BJClark]

raekwon;

Yep, I listened to that same interview last night. I was like "well, at least he's getting closer to admitting that he's abandoned the faith."

Maybe there will be yet another split within their denomination as people realize they are not worshipping the God of the Bible, but teaching a false religion.

I can certainly pray that God will use this to open the eyes of the elect who at the moment think this man is of God.

 

[Marrow Man]

The problem is that Robinson is "orthodox" (with respect to the "historic faith") when compared to many in his denomination. He believes (or at least pays lip service to) in the Trinity, the Resurrection, the deity of Christ, etc. So, to the nominal, he might even be perceived to be a "conservative."

 

[PresbyDane]

Well to quote scripture, there is nothing new under the sun

 

[Classical Presbyterian]

Here, to the New York Times, Vicky Gene admitted that his god is not the same God as that of Christianity--

“I’m all for Rick Warren being at the table,” Bishop Robinson said, “but we’re not talking about a discussion, we’re talking about putting someone up front and center at what will be the most watched inauguration in history, and asking his blessing on the nation. And the God that he’s praying to is not the God that I know.”

 

[Marrow Man]

Here, to the New York Times, Vicky Gene admitted that his god is not the same God as that of Christianity--

“I’m all for Rick Warren being at the table,” Bishop Robinson said, “but we’re not talking about a discussion, we’re talking about putting someone up front and center at what will be the most watched inauguration in history, and asking his blessing on the nation. And the God that he’s praying to is not the God that I know.”

Toby, do you have a link for this quote? It's not in the NYT article linked in post 1.

 

[Tripel]

And the God that he’s praying to is not the God that I know.”

And the God that you know is not the God that everyone else knows. When we all know different "Gods", it's impossible for everyone to be happy.

...Speaking of, "the God that I know" is such a horrible phrase. Only a fool defines God by his own standards. I, frankly, don't care about what someone "knows" God to be. I care about the God of the Bible. Now wouldn't that be something...if Robinson had the audacity to say "Warren's God is not the God of the Bible!" But that wouldn't happen, because Robinson knows he can't use the Bible as the standard.

-----Added 1/14/2009 at 12:25:01 EST-----

Anybody want to wager on how many more inaugurations will include an invocation? Surely they have to end at some point. And I'd be fine with it.

 

[BobVigneault]

Toby, do you have a link for this quote? It's not in the NYT article linked in post 1.

Seventh paragraph down. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/u.../Presidents and Presidency (US)/Inaugurations

 

[he beholds]

I heard this last night on NPR. I was so disturbed.
Why do people need to call themselves Christians when they aren't?
If he is a Christian, he would know that there is no such being as "The god of our many understandings," and thus, he would not waste his (or the country's) time invoking such a god.
Even the NPR interviewer was like, "The god of many understandings has never been invoked at an inaugural event before." He responded, something like, "Well, I do a lot of firsts."

Oh, and he learned of this god of our many understandings when he was in alcohol rehab three or so years ago. How does one who has so recently been in a public struggle with alcohol act as a Bishop?

 

[Marrow Man]

I heard this last night on NPR. I was so disturbed.
Why do people need to call themselves Christians when they aren't?
If he is a Christian, he would know that there is no such being as "The god of our many understandings," and thus, he would not waste his (or the country's) time invoking such a god.
Even the NPR interviewer was like, "The god of many understandings has never been invoked at an inaugural event before." He responded, something like, "Well, I do a lot of firsts."

Oh, and he learned of this god of our many understandings when he was in alcohol rehab three or so years ago. How does one who has so recently been in a public struggle with alcohol act as a Bishop?

All good questions. Apparently, simply claiming to be a Christian is not only good enough to get you in the building, it's good enough to make you a "man of the cloth."

I attended a debate a couple of years back b/t James White and John Shelby Spong on the subject of homosexuality (specifically, what the NT says about it). In the debate, White repeated asked (and got no satisfactory answer) what we would say about a Muslim who denied that Allah was the only true god, who denied that Muhammed was his prophet, and who denied that the Koran was the word of Allah. Could we in any meaningful way affirm that he is a Muslim? And yet we have folks like Spong being ordained in Christianity!!!

 

[he beholds]

I heard this last night on NPR. I was so disturbed.
Why do people need to call themselves Christians when they aren't?
If he is a Christian, he would know that there is no such being as "The god of our many understandings," and thus, he would not waste his (or the country's) time invoking such a god.
Even the NPR interviewer was like, "The god of many understandings has never been invoked at an inaugural event before." He responded, something like, "Well, I do a lot of firsts."

Oh, and he learned of this god of our many understandings when he was in alcohol rehab three or so years ago. How does one who has so recently been in a public struggle with alcohol act as a Bishop?

All good questions. Apparently, simply claiming to be a Christian is not only good enough to get you in the building, it's good enough to make you a "man of the cloth."

I attended a debate a couple of years back b/t James White and John Shelby Spong on the subject of homosexuality (specifically, what the NT says about it). In the debate, White repeated asked (and got no satisfactory answer) what we would say about a Muslim who denied that Allah was the only true god, who denied that Muhammed was his prophet, and who denied that the Koran was the word of Allah. Could we in any meaningful way affirm that he is a Muslim? And yet we have folks like Spong being ordained in Christianity!!!

 

[21st Century Calvinist]

he beholds:
How does one who has so recently been in a public struggle with alcohol act as a Bishop?

Good question. If the ECUSA practiced biblical discipline.... I have sympathy for his struggles with alcohol and commend him for going to rehab. But more concerning what right does any man have to be a Bishop when he currently lives in open and defiant sin, by being in an intimate relationship that God has already declared is against His purposes?

 

[Marrow Man]

There has been a followup to this story. A mainline renewal leader has written a letter to Obama warning the President-elect of the message he is sending with this decision. You can read the story here; here's a quote from the letter:

Your decision, to invite Bishop Gene Robinson to provide public leadership at the Sunday celebration of your inauguration is offensive and disappointing to many of us in Christian leadership who seek to be supportive of your presidency. In contrast to your other choices for religious leadership during this historic occasion, Robinson is a schismatic figure who has intentionally caused deep hurt and division in the Christian church. To many mainline Christians who share your concerns for peace and justice, Robinson symbolizes the moral deviance of denominational leaders who have embraced the agenda of sexual license to the detriment and decline of their churches. The division caused by Robinson and his supporters have cause great harm to the Christian church. Of equal or greater concern, however, is the public message you are sending to our international partners in the global south. Bishop Robinson has become a symbol of western decadence and moral deviance to African Church leaders and to some degree South American and Asian Church leaders who represent constituencies far larger than the Christian church in the U.S. Putting Robinson forward with the blessing of your presidency communicates that your intention is to embrace the virulent practice of western hedonism. It is abortive to your efforts to provide strong international leadership for unity and peace. African leaders in particular will see this as a direct insult to their efforts to confront the horrendous health issues that face their people and the oppression of Islamics and others who accuse Christianity of reflecting the immorality of western culture.

 

[BobVigneault]

If Eugene the Queen is a symbol of "western decadence and moral deviance" then I'm not so sure he isn't the perfect symbol for America. We ARE the largest exporters of p*rn and Christian principles are quickly becoming the anti-virtues of America.

Rick Warren is the one who is out of place in Obama's inclusive agenda. Warren is the one who is being used as a tool, the other three 'ministers' are the mainstream.

 

[Marrow Man]

Actually, if you read my blog commentary on this, I describe Robinson as the new poster child for modern American evangelicalism:

From these quotes, straight from the bishop himself, he considers the Bible to be of only minor importance (especially if it offends others), himself orthodox compared to many in his denomination (but orthodox merely when it’s convenient), orthodoxy merely determined by a tip-of-the-hat to historic doctrines, and truth to be ultimately found (or denied) in subjective religious experience. Come to think of it, Bishop Robinson might actually be an evangelical. Perhaps he has now become the poster child of modern American Christianity!

 

[BJClark]

Marrow Man;5

But the President-elect is nothing if not crafty and wise.

From your blog..I haven't read it all yet...but this jumped out at me..I would agree he is crafty..but He is no way shape or form wise..as wisdom comes from the Lord..

 

[Marrow Man]

Marrow Man;5

But the President-elect is nothing if not crafty and wise.

From your blog..I haven't read it all yet...but this jumped out at me..I would agree he is crafty..but He is no way shape or form wise..as wisdom comes from the Lord..

I agree with you, but there is a worldly kind of wisdom (or that which passes for wisdom; e.g., James 3:15, 1 Cor 1:19-20; 2:1ff, etc.), and the President-elect is well-versed in it.

Actually, I was think of a serpent when I wrote that...

 

[he beholds]

he beholds:
How does one who has so recently been in a public struggle with alcohol act as a Bishop?

Good question. If the ECUSA practiced biblical discipline.... I have sympathy for his struggles with alcohol and commend him for going to rehab. But more concerning what right does any man have to be a Bishop when he currently lives in open and defiant sin, by being in an intimate relationship that God has already declared is against His purposes?

I do acknowledge that his current state of open sin is more pressing than his former. But since he, and obviously his denomination, see nothing wrong with homosexuality, it still surprises me that they don't care even about things occurring that they do see as being wrong. (I'm only assuming that they believe alcohol abuse is wrong, or why the need for rehab?)

 

[BobVigneault]

Remember, in the liberal mindset there is no such thing as sin. There are addictions, predispositions, dysfunctions, and so on and all these can be fixed with counseling and remediation. Most importantly, we need to understand and accept others as they are. You can't do this unless you accept and love yourself first. Most of what you are going through is the fault of an oppressive religious upbringing. The definitions of sin and sin itself is out-moded - anachronisms from an unenlightened and embarrassing past.

We don't need forgiveness, only self-actualization, self-esteem and self-empowerment. Praise to 'the god of our many understandings.'

{I will be in the Vomitorium.}