Exodus 18 and Church Government

[clawrence9008]

Hey all,

I was reading Exodus 18 this morning and was intrigued by the form of government which Jethro suggested to Moses (Ex. 18:17-22) and which he subsequently established (Ex. 18:24-26). In trying to further understand the Presbyterian tradition of which I have become convinced over the past few months -- and especially given I aspire to be a minister of the gospel in the future -- one of the doctrines which I have been trying to understand more is that of Presbyterian polity. With regards to this, as I am reading through the Pentateuch, I am trying to see the continuity between how the OT church was governed and how the NT church is to be governed today. My reading of this passage produced two questions:

1) Is the government which Jethro suggests (Ex. 18:17-22) a form of church government, or of civil government? From the little I know, this seems to be a separate type of institution than that of the 70 elders in Numbers 11:16ff, but I am not sure.
2) If it is a form of church government, how does Exodus 18 (specifically v. 21-22, 25-26) support Presbyterian church polity?

 

[Deleted member 13126]

I don’t want to derail the thread but would like to pose a question of my own on the subject of Exodus 18.

Wasn’t Jethro an unbeliever? A priest of Midian? I’m surprised Moses would take any advice from him. What would the beginning of verse 19 even suggest to two people who believe in two different Gods? “And your God shall be with thee?”

 

[Northern Crofter]

Wasn’t Jethro an unbeliever? A priest of Midian?

Midian was a son of Abraham via Keturah (see Genesis 25). I believe the phrase "the Priest of Midian" is a geographical reference in Exodus 18 (cf. Exodus 4:19), but I also believe the inhabitants would be the descendants of Abraham so it is probable they were believers.

I’m surprised Moses would take any advice from him. What would the beginning of verse 19 even suggest to two people who believe in two different Gods? “And your God shall be with thee?”

The "your" is supplied in your version. It is not in others, even amongst other translations from the TR: "Hear now my voice, (I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee)" (1599 Geneva).

Consider also vv.8-9: "Then Moses told his father-in-law all that the Lord had done unto Pharaoh, and to the Egyptians for Israel’s sake, and all the travail that had come unto them by the way, and how the Lord delivered them. And Jethro rejoiced at all the goodness, which the Lord had showed to Israel, and because he had delivered them out of the hand of the Egyptians." That sounds more like believers sharing God's goodness and rejoicing than anything else.

Hey all,

I was reading Exodus 18 this morning and was intrigued by the form of government which Jethro suggested to Moses (Ex. 18:17-22) and which he subsequently established (Ex. 18:24-26). In trying to further understand the Presbyterian tradition of which I have become convinced over the past few months -- and especially given I aspire to be a minister of the gospel in the future -- one of the doctrines which I have been trying to understand more is that of Presbyterian polity. With regards to this, as I am reading through the Pentateuch, I am trying to see the continuity between how the OT church was governed and how the NT church is to be governed today. My reading of this passage produced two questions:

1) Is the government which Jethro suggests (Ex. 18:17-22) a form of church government, or of civil government? From the little I know, this seems to be a separate type of institution than that of the 70 elders in Numbers 11:16ff, but I am not sure.
2) If it is a form of church government, how does Exodus 18 (specifically v. 21-22, 25-26) support Presbyterian church polity?

Do you consider Luke 10:1 a coincidence or a commendation?

 

[clawrence9008]

Do you consider Luke 10:1 a coincidence or a comendation?

I'm unsure on what you mean. I don't have a strong enough understanding of church government to be able to answer anything to that beyond that the commission of the seventy-two disciples in Luke 10:1ff was clearly by divine appointment.

 

[Phil D.]

Wasn’t Jethro an unbeliever?

In addition to what Andrew noted, Jethro was a Kenite (Judges 1:16). According to some scholars the Kenites, as descendants of Abraham through Midian (Gen. 25:1-2), likely worshiped Yahweh, even though they only had a partial revelation of Him, and thus their worship would in many ways have been deficient and defective. Exodus 18:11-12 strongly suggests Jethro's "full" conversion.

 

[chuckd]

Hey all,

I was reading Exodus 18 this morning and was intrigued by the form of government which Jethro suggested to Moses (Ex. 18:17-22) and which he subsequently established (Ex. 18:24-26). In trying to further understand the Presbyterian tradition of which I have become convinced over the past few months -- and especially given I aspire to be a minister of the gospel in the future -- one of the doctrines which I have been trying to understand more is that of Presbyterian polity. With regards to this, as I am reading through the Pentateuch, I am trying to see the continuity between how the OT church was governed and how the NT church is to be governed today. My reading of this passage produced two questions:

1) Is the government which Jethro suggests (Ex. 18:17-22) a form of church government, or of civil government? From the little I know, this seems to be a separate type of institution than that of the 70 elders in Numbers 11:16ff, but I am not sure.
2) If it is a form of church government, how does Exodus 18 (specifically v. 21-22, 25-26) support Presbyterian church polity?

I believe your answer can be found in George Gillespie's Aaron's Rod Ch. 3.

 

[Northern Crofter]

I'm unsure on what you mean. I don't have a strong enough understanding of church government to be able to answer anything to that beyond that the commission of the seventy-two disciples in Luke 10:1ff was clearly by divine appointment.

Most modern and RC translations (and a lot of paraphrases like the NIV and NLT) have "72" but the older (Geneva, AV - but also the modern RSV and NAS) go with "70." If you want to go down a deep rabbit hole, try to figure out which number is "right" (Luke is the only place the number of "extra" disciples is given - the texts available are roughly split 50/50 so scholars do not agree on the number but many think an additional 2 is a copyist’s error due to the use of the number 70 previously in Scripture in places like Exodus 24:1, Numbers 11:16, and Jeremiah 29:10).

I have always read it as 70 but many folk into numerology like 72 because 72 + the 12 = 84 which is 12 x 7 (the "perfect" #) and there is the thought that this represents a "perfect" (complete) witness to the 12 tribes. But some numerology fans like 70 for pretty much the same reason because it relates to the 70 nations in Genesis 10.

1) Is the government which Jethro suggests (Ex. 18:17-22) a form of church government, or of civil government? From the little I know, this seems to be a separate type of institution than that of the 70 elders in Numbers 11:16ff, but I am not sure.
2) If it is a form of church government, how does Exodus 18 (specifically v. 21-22, 25-26) support Presbyterian church polity?

I think the parallel between Moses and the Seventy (plus the 12 "heads of tribes") and Christ and the Seventy (plus the 12 original disciples) supports the position that presbyterian styled government (both in civil and ecclesiastical arenas) is Biblically warranted - that is to say, while there is nothing sacred about the number 70, I believe the continuity of the number/ratio communicates that this style of governing Church and State is warranted in both dispensations of the covenant of grace. (By "presbyterian" I mean a system of lower to higher bodies of power, with the higher bodies having fewer members while having greater power to adjudicate.)